I concede that I am not highly familiar with horns so I suggest you listen to the guys that are but i'm still more than a little concerned about the amount of EQ you will have to use with car subs maybe the horn loading will fix it ... actually it should help alot but i'm still not totally sure whatever you do, a well designed horn will give quite a few dB lift in efficiency so you could use a few dB of EQ and still come out ahead. Good Luck! (I've got a 6 hour long engineering exam that starts @ 8:45am hehehe oh what fun!)
Banned
Joined 2002
It was? News to me, I thought we were actually getting somewhere for a change (making it only 9 or so pages of crap). People were saying I was on the right track now, that I was coming to my senses, and that it might actually work. Was this not true? You make it sound like people were just leading me on, or vice versa. What are you taking about man? Even you seemed to be with me on this for a time!
We were just going along smoothely, talking about what I'm going to use for subs, there was no tension, and then all of a sudden........ "shut up, Kilowatt, you're wasting our time and making an *** of yourself" like for no reason, what's going on? Don't think I should even make the system at all? What the hell do I have to do to get a little help around here?
We were just going along smoothely, talking about what I'm going to use for subs, there was no tension, and then all of a sudden........ "shut up, Kilowatt, you're wasting our time and making an *** of yourself" like for no reason, what's going on? Don't think I should even make the system at all? What the hell do I have to do to get a little help around here?
Truth In Answering
Kilowatt, you need to define to us very clearly exactly what you are wanting to achieve, in what environment, who for, your experience and your gain through your involvement - Then we can prperly help you, but you need to be TOTALLY HONEST.
So far you have posted continally changing ideas and suggestions and so far no real results, except for wasting bandwidth and annoying your seniors.
So, spill the beans and we'll help, and no more outbursts from you thankyou.
Eric.
Kilowatt, you need to define to us very clearly exactly what you are wanting to achieve, in what environment, who for, your experience and your gain through your involvement - Then we can prperly help you, but you need to be TOTALLY HONEST.
So far you have posted continally changing ideas and suggestions and so far no real results, except for wasting bandwidth and annoying your seniors.
So, spill the beans and we'll help, and no more outbursts from you thankyou.
Eric.
I have to side with Kilowatt on this one.
Killowatt even said First of all, I listen to everyone here, age doesn't really matter, in fact, the older guys here are obviously more experienced and wiser. which makes the statement ... wasting bandwidth and annoying your seniors. just a bit mean.
When brainstorming, it's possible to wander around a bit, but I'll admit I'm not as clued into the history on this one.
Posted by JasonL:
I just think that's funny. Poster, Edit thyself!
Killowatt even said First of all, I listen to everyone here, age doesn't really matter, in fact, the older guys here are obviously more experienced and wiser. which makes the statement ... wasting bandwidth and annoying your seniors. just a bit mean.
When brainstorming, it's possible to wander around a bit, but I'll admit I'm not as clued into the history on this one.
Posted by JasonL:
Posted by JasonL
I just think that's funny. Poster, Edit thyself!Thank you, jgwinner.
But to further justify my cause,
I thought you knew exactly what I want to do. I'm glad someone finally explained the deal, all I've been getting is "outbursts" from others. People saying "Screw you" instead of a more appropriate "Just what are you trying to do here?" That doesn't seem quite right, so please don't accuse me of being harmful to this forum's friendly air.
Anyway, what I want to do is build 14x450W into 2 or 3 ohm amps (depending on what speakers I use) and 16x56.25W into 8 ohm amps. 8 for woofers, 6 for mids, and the 16 56Wers for treb. That's the plan anyway. That totals 7200W. This figure is based only on the fact that I couldn't get much more class AB power from a 12kW outlet. All of them would be CF MOSFET amps, and preferrably in the same chassis because I already have a water cooling system that would be perfect for all the amps together. They would have to use switching supplies, unfortunately, because 60Hz power transformers for it would weigh over 200lbs. The making of the amp isn't so much the issue because I can deffinately do it. There are plenty of plans for 450W amps out there, and I know enough to design my own by now. The issue is the speaker system. I want to use the amp outside, there are no amphitheare type things around here, only flat landscape and forrested mountains. It is not so much a PA system designed specifically for putting on shows for large audiences, though there is certainly plenty of power for that. It's more of a large stereo, and I want it to have as close to hifi quality as possible. Quite a challenge outdoors. The reasoning behind it is somewhat similar to the reasoning behind those 160dB car systems, only the sound quality is ever so much better, and the system is ever so much more marketable, or at least useful if I ever need a PA or something really powerful. If nothing else, I could take it apart and sell the individual amps and PSUs if I want to get rid of it and can't sell it. It should cost only as much as many PA systems with lower power and fidelity, perhaps as little as $10,000. There are people that would spend that much on a 2x60W tube system with passive crossovers and 2%THD, but I've found something that I think is more practical to spend it on. You must realize that some people like cool stuff, especially cool stuff with overkill (and headroom, in the case of sound systems). I'm one of those people. I feel that this system could actually be something worth having, and I will certainly be very happy if and when it is done (the only reason that it might not get done is if you people convince me not to build it, or refuse to help me with my speaker issues, etc.). In conclusion to that, I'm building it as a huge outdoor stereo that can double as a killer PA, immediate listeners will probably just include myself and my friends, and many of the system's channels may remain unused until such a time when they are called upon, and I certainly won't be able to afford ALL the speakers right away. I could get a taste of it fairly soon though.
As far as my experience in such things, it is little, and it is far less than my book knowledge of the matter. I have built a few power amps, have worked with a few home theatre and car systems, but nothing anywhere near this magnatude and complexity. I haven't had the opportunity to, and the best way to learn that I have is to just go do it, but with a little help from people that have more experience than myself, of course.
I have been "totally honest", and I hope I have answered all your questions. Perhaps I can make some real progress soon, if my current speaker plan sounds good to everyone.
But to further justify my cause,
I thought you knew exactly what I want to do. I'm glad someone finally explained the deal, all I've been getting is "outbursts" from others. People saying "Screw you" instead of a more appropriate "Just what are you trying to do here?" That doesn't seem quite right, so please don't accuse me of being harmful to this forum's friendly air.
Anyway, what I want to do is build 14x450W into 2 or 3 ohm amps (depending on what speakers I use) and 16x56.25W into 8 ohm amps. 8 for woofers, 6 for mids, and the 16 56Wers for treb. That's the plan anyway. That totals 7200W. This figure is based only on the fact that I couldn't get much more class AB power from a 12kW outlet. All of them would be CF MOSFET amps, and preferrably in the same chassis because I already have a water cooling system that would be perfect for all the amps together. They would have to use switching supplies, unfortunately, because 60Hz power transformers for it would weigh over 200lbs. The making of the amp isn't so much the issue because I can deffinately do it. There are plenty of plans for 450W amps out there, and I know enough to design my own by now. The issue is the speaker system. I want to use the amp outside, there are no amphitheare type things around here, only flat landscape and forrested mountains. It is not so much a PA system designed specifically for putting on shows for large audiences, though there is certainly plenty of power for that. It's more of a large stereo, and I want it to have as close to hifi quality as possible. Quite a challenge outdoors. The reasoning behind it is somewhat similar to the reasoning behind those 160dB car systems, only the sound quality is ever so much better, and the system is ever so much more marketable, or at least useful if I ever need a PA or something really powerful. If nothing else, I could take it apart and sell the individual amps and PSUs if I want to get rid of it and can't sell it. It should cost only as much as many PA systems with lower power and fidelity, perhaps as little as $10,000. There are people that would spend that much on a 2x60W tube system with passive crossovers and 2%THD, but I've found something that I think is more practical to spend it on. You must realize that some people like cool stuff, especially cool stuff with overkill (and headroom, in the case of sound systems). I'm one of those people. I feel that this system could actually be something worth having, and I will certainly be very happy if and when it is done (the only reason that it might not get done is if you people convince me not to build it, or refuse to help me with my speaker issues, etc.). In conclusion to that, I'm building it as a huge outdoor stereo that can double as a killer PA, immediate listeners will probably just include myself and my friends, and many of the system's channels may remain unused until such a time when they are called upon, and I certainly won't be able to afford ALL the speakers right away. I could get a taste of it fairly soon though.
As far as my experience in such things, it is little, and it is far less than my book knowledge of the matter. I have built a few power amps, have worked with a few home theatre and car systems, but nothing anywhere near this magnatude and complexity. I haven't had the opportunity to, and the best way to learn that I have is to just go do it, but with a little help from people that have more experience than myself, of course.
I have been "totally honest", and I hope I have answered all your questions. Perhaps I can make some real progress soon, if my current speaker plan sounds good to everyone.
For those of us that have been following Kilowatt's posts for a while most of what he just explained was allready known. But now everyone that was wondering about his motives and such should know so that we can finally get into the hardware again!
To the folks around here that continues to jump Kilowatt's throat all the time: It's a free forum, you don't have to answer his posts if you don't want to. Let's go for positive criticism!
Kilowatt:
Have you decided on horns or what was the final idea?
/Marcus
To the folks around here that continues to jump Kilowatt's throat all the time: It's a free forum, you don't have to answer his posts if you don't want to. Let's go for positive criticism!
Kilowatt:
Have you decided on horns or what was the final idea?
/Marcus
Oh, definately, horns on everything. It's the only way to go outside. I might need a little info on horn design though. I want to use Vifa 5" full ranges for my mids, because they can go really high and I can get away with the proportionally small power that I'd have for my trebs. Eminance 18s look like the thing for my woofers, but I'm thinking I'll need some Audiobahns for like 40 or 50Hz and down. I'll just make separate powered subs for those. For treb, I will probably also use Vifas, but there's alot to choose from there. I'm thinking I'll cross over at 40Hz, 200Hz, and 6,000Hz (those Vifa fullranges can go to 20,000Hz). I can just adjust it as needed though.
Hey JasonL, what's up with that?
then
And Steve,
to
Again, what are you guys talking about? I just can't believe you said that. It was totally unjustified as far as I can tell, and others agree. I haven't done anything different in between your guys' contradicting posts, it's like you just decided all of a sudden for no reason to start fighting again. Interestingly enough, this same sort of thing tends to happen to me in life. Must be something about me. I hate to whine, but come on, this is rediculous.
How about being a bit more constructive so I can get this done (actually, I don't know what else there is to talk about, just need to know if I'm on the right track and I can get going).
then
And Steve,
to
Again, what are you guys talking about? I just can't believe you said that. It was totally unjustified as far as I can tell, and others agree. I haven't done anything different in between your guys' contradicting posts, it's like you just decided all of a sudden for no reason to start fighting again. Interestingly enough, this same sort of thing tends to happen to me in life. Must be something about me. I hate to whine, but come on, this is rediculous.
How about being a bit more constructive so I can get this done (actually, I don't know what else there is to talk about, just need to know if I'm on the right track and I can get going).
Well yeah, I guess not, I'm just trying to prove my point. I'll try to move on, but I've noticed that very few people follow my threads anymore. It's like they forgave Slice, but not me. It just kind of bothers me. How would you feel if people all but stopped replying to your posts, especially the more knowledgeable ones?
Anyway, I'll try out some of those speakers on my Leach amps and stuff, and build horns for them and try 'em out outside once I sell my Xplods. Then it will be time to start building the amps.
Anyway, I'll try out some of those speakers on my Leach amps and stuff, and build horns for them and try 'em out outside once I sell my Xplods. Then it will be time to start building the amps.
Dont' worry, they have,
my High V thread died fairly quick, as did my search for Hitachi Mosfet replacements. I'm going to order the Exicon parts and hope they work.>>I'm just trying to prove my point.<<
That could be part of the problem - people hate being told they are wrong, especially if they are
Just a thought. I don't know enough about you are the personality history on here to say for sure.== John ==
Moving on
Kilowatt said:
"It just kind of bothers me. How would you feel if people all but stopped replying to your posts, especially the more knowledgeable ones?"
Well Kilowatt, didn't you notice, that happens to EVERYONE!
By nature, a thread flares up and dies, sometimes within a few days.
Try to come back with a new topic and they'll flock to you again.
Cheers, Jan Didden
Kilowatt said:
"It just kind of bothers me. How would you feel if people all but stopped replying to your posts, especially the more knowledgeable ones?"
Well Kilowatt, didn't you notice, that happens to EVERYONE!
By nature, a thread flares up and dies, sometimes within a few days.
Try to come back with a new topic and they'll flock to you again.
Cheers, Jan Didden
Oh yeah, most threads don't last long at all, I'm not that oblivious They don't need to, they just come to an end when they're over. This thread didn't really come to a proper end, it seemed, a few pages ago, with people going off, but by now, everything is pretty much taken care of, and I wouldn't expect it to go any further, it's too long as is.
They don't need to, they just come to an end when they're over. This thread didn't really come to a proper end, it seemed, a few pages ago, with people going off, but by now, everything is pretty much taken care of, and I wouldn't expect it to go any further, it's too long as is.- Status
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