I've been using the DE250 on the H100 for a few years and really like it. I'm looking at other combinations for a 15" two way and considering the 1.4" version.
Yes, it is.
As Brett has noted, though: domestic environment. I doubt I'll get within 20dB of what these drivers are capable of, so that does afford me some flexibility on the crossover point.
Scholl, it's a little divergent, but I use an 18Sound ND1460 on an RCF HF94 for my PA system. Excellent results.
I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions to this thread. I'll do another round of reading to confirm my choice, and then will likely be ordering a pair the NSD1095N.
Chris
Bit of an update.
2x NSD1095N arrived a few days ago, and today I've finally had time to listen.
First up, I took the DE250 + XT120 combination out of one of my speakers, put it on the floor firing upwards, and did some sweeps. On/off-axis, etc. Then I replaced the DE250 with an NSD1095N and did the same set of sweeps. Didn't change any levels or distances, so we can directly compare sensitivity. Finally, I put the NSD1095N on the RCF H100 horn, moved the mic up a bit (the H100 is considerably deeper than the XT120) and ran the same sweeps again.
Notes on the measurements:
Below is a link (hidden behind the "spoiler" function) which will let you download the REW file. NB - I'm using REW V5.20.4. Older versions may or may not be able to open this file.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19J30o-sQ-wRdWqZZgzUDNOAD0oS5Y_fA/view?usp=sharing
Some observations from the measurements:
I installed the drivers in my speakers and did some EQ to match the DE250s. Some boost was required to make up the sensitivity difference. DSP is a wonderful thing. I might revise the crossover at some point, though, as there's ~20dB of attenuation in there.
Listening notes below. Note that this is a completely sighted test, no A/B comparisons, I've seen the measurements, and expectation bias is, er, expected.
In all, if you've got these cash, I'd recommend these drivers. They're not perfect, but so far I think they'll keep me happy for a good long time.
Thanks to everyone that's contributed.
Chris
2x NSD1095N arrived a few days ago, and today I've finally had time to listen.
First up, I took the DE250 + XT120 combination out of one of my speakers, put it on the floor firing upwards, and did some sweeps. On/off-axis, etc. Then I replaced the DE250 with an NSD1095N and did the same set of sweeps. Didn't change any levels or distances, so we can directly compare sensitivity. Finally, I put the NSD1095N on the RCF H100 horn, moved the mic up a bit (the H100 is considerably deeper than the XT120) and ran the same sweeps again.
Notes on the measurements:
- Beyerdynamic MM1 microphone, capsule about 20cm from the front edge of the horn
- MOTU M4 interface
- Denon PMA-250 amp
- Levels not calibrated, but are correct relative to each other
- Sweeps were full-range, repeated once.
- Naming format is [Driver] [Horn] [Horizontal or Vertical off-axis] [How far off axis (half-way across the horn, at the edge, etc)]
Below is a link (hidden behind the "spoiler" function) which will let you download the REW file. NB - I'm using REW V5.20.4. Older versions may or may not be able to open this file.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19J30o-sQ-wRdWqZZgzUDNOAD0oS5Y_fA/view?usp=sharing
Some observations from the measurements:
- There's a fairly deep notch at 17.6kHz on the NSD1095N. It crops up on both horns, so I think that's innate for this driver. A little disappointing.
- Comparing impulse responses, the NSD1095N is certainly cleaner than the DE250.
- The DE250 has a sensitivity advantage pretty much across the range.
- The NSD1095N is smoother across the range.
I installed the drivers in my speakers and did some EQ to match the DE250s. Some boost was required to make up the sensitivity difference. DSP is a wonderful thing. I might revise the crossover at some point, though, as there's ~20dB of attenuation in there.
Listening notes below. Note that this is a completely sighted test, no A/B comparisons, I've seen the measurements, and expectation bias is, er, expected.
- Very good.
- Cleaner, more extended in the top octave
- The decay of cymbals/hi-hats etc is more obvious and easy to pick out within the music. Lower harmonic distortion?
- No obvious problems running them down to 1kHz, but I haven't given them any serious pain yet.
In all, if you've got these cash, I'd recommend these drivers. They're not perfect, but so far I think they'll keep me happy for a good long time.
Thanks to everyone that's contributed.
Chris
No problem.
I've been working on the crossover to account for the lower sensitivity etc, and the XSim graphs are looking excellent. I've run out of time this evening to do the soldering + measurements + calibration, so it's still the old crossover for now. Got the components and soldering iron lying in wait, so it'll be done very soon.
Chris
I've been working on the crossover to account for the lower sensitivity etc, and the XSim graphs are looking excellent. I've run out of time this evening to do the soldering + measurements + calibration, so it's still the old crossover for now. Got the components and soldering iron lying in wait, so it'll be done very soon.
Chris
Looking at the 18sound data sheet, with the XT1086 horn, the response over 10k is down to 100dB. This will be a close call to eq flat with passive xover (cap + R shunt). The response is remarkably flat and the primary driver resonance is at 1k with much smaller secondary peaks at 1.7k and 3k. Based on the primary 1k impedance peak, the driver should be able to go down to at least 1k with a suitable WG and treating the 1k peak with an LCR notch. The limiting factor in the published FR curve is clearly the XT1086 WG. Looks like a nice option to the DE250 as a higher end 1 inch driver. I wonder if the TI diaphragm option for the DE250 is in some ways better than the polymer diaphragm?
Attachments
That is not a good thing. B&C de250 has aluminum voice coil Polyimide diaphragm.
I ordered a set of NSD1095s to replace the B&C DE250s that don't mate up well on the throat of LTH102 Faital WGs. This driver has the potential to perform better than some beryllium models if the data is correct. The problem with plastic diaphragm drivers is they tend to smooth over some detail in the top end. A well designed Ti driver can sound smooth and stiil have detail. The key is not crossing too low, but i know many want to push the driver down as far as it will go. Thats why I like 3 ways with a 6 to 8 inch mid, which allows a higher xover to take the load off the CD and avoid operating it around its primary resonance peak.
I think the H100 is the better horn - it gives a bit more output towards the bottom of the passband, and IIRC was a little smoother than the XT120. However, since my current baffles already fit the XT120, I decided to stick with those.
In the future, I may make the swap.
Chris
I checked with PE and they only had one left in stock. I got my set from American Musical Supply. They appeared to have a bunch of them still in stock.
The main things I like about the WG10 are rounded over mouth and the standard bolt on flange, which makes getting a precise fit easier to the CD. The DE250 has an exit angle of about 14.7 degrees according to the spec sheet. The NSD1095N is a little less, which should favor a deeper WG, so we'll see how that pans out with the rest of the WGs. The SEOS 12 got my attention too. I have a few Martin OEM WGs coming as well, plus a few leftover Selenium HM25-25 expo WGs.
I've been on a mission to design the best reasonably priced 3 way 1" CD system I can manage. I'm leaning towards using b&c 8pe21 mids and 15ndl88 LF drivers.
The main things I like about the WG10 are rounded over mouth and the standard bolt on flange, which makes getting a precise fit easier to the CD. The DE250 has an exit angle of about 14.7 degrees according to the spec sheet. The NSD1095N is a little less, which should favor a deeper WG, so we'll see how that pans out with the rest of the WGs. The SEOS 12 got my attention too. I have a few Martin OEM WGs coming as well, plus a few leftover Selenium HM25-25 expo WGs.
I've been on a mission to design the best reasonably priced 3 way 1" CD system I can manage. I'm leaning towards using b&c 8pe21 mids and 15ndl88 LF drivers.