I don't realy understand how Origin Live could use one controller for the both their supplied motors.
They use
48V Maxon 110191 (dc100 model) with the Terminal resistance 70.2 Ω and
24V Maxon 226774 (dc200 model) with the Terminal resistance 7.41 Ω!
They use
48V Maxon 110191 (dc100 model) with the Terminal resistance 70.2 Ω and
24V Maxon 226774 (dc200 model) with the Terminal resistance 7.41 Ω!
Niffy, I tested the smaller controller and motor, so that might be the reason for the bad results.
I tested several mounting methods but I could hear the motor in 3-4m distance!
Terrom, here is a good reading to understand how to drive a brushed DC motor:
AB-026 : Sensorless Speed Stabiliser for a DC Motor
This TI application note might also be a good start when you want to build your own controller.
Boris
I tested several mounting methods but I could hear the motor in 3-4m distance!
Terrom, here is a good reading to understand how to drive a brushed DC motor:
AB-026 : Sensorless Speed Stabiliser for a DC Motor
This TI application note might also be a good start when you want to build your own controller.
Boris
I cannot believe that also. Maybe there is a switch or jumper inside the controller to adapt to the correct motor.
Here the mk12 PCB. I couldn't see any jumpers here!
There are two potentiometers to adjust the speeds. Is it?
Yes the pots are for speed adjustment.
I must say I expected a bit more parts to be on the board.
Seems to be a very simple circuit.
I must say I expected a bit more parts to be on the board.
Seems to be a very simple circuit.
But do you think these potentiometers are enough to compensate the problem of the difference in the resistancebetween the motor and a controller?
OriginLive state that they see speed stability as a secondary issue to motor vibration - seems to me they don't pay much attention to it.
It's one thing to talk about theory and good design but before getting tied up in all that, just test out the magnitude of the results and see whether it is really worth the effort in practical terms!
My opinion of the OriginLive DC motor upgrades is that they are stupidly priced for what you actually get. The circuits are really simple and the differences between the controllers are a few dollars between each level and yet the price is hiked by tens or hundreds of dollars - just take a look at the differences via photos of people's opened-up controllers on the internet..
Another option for 12v DC turntable designs are those used by Pink Triangle back in the 80s/90s. There are circuits shown round and about e.g. this thread: Another Mini-anni... - Vinyl Engine - more complex controller design. Think they used a Fujitsu motor. Later, into the 1990s, they used expensive swiss Escap motors (also found in quality model trains) with battery-powered supplies on their Anniversary models and finally a complex, current feedback design with a Premotec motor which is likely what Funk Firm's (the company Pink Triangle became) current £1100+ top of the range motor/controller is based on.
It's one thing to talk about theory and good design but before getting tied up in all that, just test out the magnitude of the results and see whether it is really worth the effort in practical terms!
My opinion of the OriginLive DC motor upgrades is that they are stupidly priced for what you actually get. The circuits are really simple and the differences between the controllers are a few dollars between each level and yet the price is hiked by tens or hundreds of dollars - just take a look at the differences via photos of people's opened-up controllers on the internet..
Another option for 12v DC turntable designs are those used by Pink Triangle back in the 80s/90s. There are circuits shown round and about e.g. this thread: Another Mini-anni... - Vinyl Engine - more complex controller design. Think they used a Fujitsu motor. Later, into the 1990s, they used expensive swiss Escap motors (also found in quality model trains) with battery-powered supplies on their Anniversary models and finally a complex, current feedback design with a Premotec motor which is likely what Funk Firm's (the company Pink Triangle became) current £1100+ top of the range motor/controller is based on.
When I spoke to Mark Baker he told me that the motors were not maxon. The dc200 I have definitely isn't maxon. I think his decision not to use maxon was probably financial. I have not opened my controller and I'm shocked at the photo of the messy board. Definitely dosn't look like a £350 board. Can't fault the sound I'm getting using it though.
If I remember correctly the motor in the pink triangle anniversary that I used to own was made by philips,
Niffy
and this is the mk6 version of the OL pcb. I don't really understand if this PCB is matched to the Terminal resistance of the used motors or not?
Before the Mk12 it was a simple cuircut on the LM317 voltage regulator
Before the Mk12 it was a simple cuircut on the LM317 voltage regulator
I've owned/own a couple - one with the same motor as their end of line PT1s which was the Escap motor and one of the very last (which I still have) which has a motor with no markings on it... but looks exactly the same as the Premotec ones the Funk Firm use/used. Likely there were lots of changes in between, knowing Pink Triangle!
From the OL Homepage:
"DC200 Motor - All kits are supplied with the DC100 motor as standard, however the DC200 motor is offered as an option. DC200s are selected for their additional quietness from the best DC100s. Grading motors is a known proceedure among turntable manufacturers and motors with slightly less vibration are set aside for decks higher in the range."
So the DC200 motor seems to be exactly the same as DC100 but selected for low noise...
This explains why Niffys motor is much quieter than mine was.
The OL motor is definitely not a maxon motor. I have a Re-max here and I had the DC-100 here.
I have a very first version of the OL kit with a tiny separate pcb and the motor with the metal pulley. The motor they used was a Premotec 9904-120-18105 12VDC motor.
Then they used Maxon motors and many people confirmed it was a Maxon.
So today they use Mk12 PCB with the other motor? What the model is it? How they solve the problem of the difference in resistence in these motors?😱
Then they used Maxon motors and many people confirmed it was a Maxon.
So today they use Mk12 PCB with the other motor? What the model is it? How they solve the problem of the difference in resistence in these motors?😱
Hi all.
The current ol web site shows a photo of the dc100 sat next to the dc200. I haven't shown this photo in case it infringes copyright. The two motors are definitely different models and neither are the same as mine. Looks like Mark changes motors quite often.
On a different note. Origin have an upgrade power supply unit which they claim makes a big difference. The controller runs from 12volt ac. I happen to have a musical fidelity x-psu that has 12volt ac output. Running the ol controller from the x-psu definitely improved sound quality compared to the standard wall wart power supply. Surprisingly the x-psu made a bigger improvement to the ol motor controller than it did to the matching musical fidelity phonograph stage. I'm having a bit of difficulty getting my head around this. I really expected the power supply to make more difference to the phonograph stage.
Niffy
Looking at the PCB picture, it seems the same PCB is used for the Advanced and Ultra controllers. Has anyone performed a DIY upgrade to the Advanced controller?
I have the advanced motor controller and have investigated DIY upgrading it to ultra specs. Unfortunately Mark scrubs the identification markings off critical components making it impossible for a casual tweeker to upgrade. Can't say I blame him for that.
All of the origin live upgrade external power supplies are just transformers in boxes. The higher models are just bigger transformers. Mark claims that the advanced with his top power supply is better than the ultra with the more basic upgrade supply. I believe him based on my experiments, though I have not directly compared the two.
I initially used a 60VA 12volt toroidal transformer (Musical Fidelity X-PSU) that made a worthwhile upgrade over the basic plug top supply. A 120VA 15volt toroidal transform was a lot better again. I have done a lot of experimentation and found that using a DC supply makes a huge positive difference compared to AC straight from the transformer.
My current set up is a linear supply using the 120VA transformer and a couple of 22,000uf caps as a CRC filter. I also have a DC blocker on the mains input as I have a lot of DC on my mains. This seems to make an additional, but small, positive difference. I did try a supply using a voltage regulator on the output but this flattened the sound quite dramatically. It seems that a high instantaneous current capability is more important than rock steady voltage.
Niffy
All of the origin live upgrade external power supplies are just transformers in boxes. The higher models are just bigger transformers. Mark claims that the advanced with his top power supply is better than the ultra with the more basic upgrade supply. I believe him based on my experiments, though I have not directly compared the two.
I initially used a 60VA 12volt toroidal transformer (Musical Fidelity X-PSU) that made a worthwhile upgrade over the basic plug top supply. A 120VA 15volt toroidal transform was a lot better again. I have done a lot of experimentation and found that using a DC supply makes a huge positive difference compared to AC straight from the transformer.
My current set up is a linear supply using the 120VA transformer and a couple of 22,000uf caps as a CRC filter. I also have a DC blocker on the mains input as I have a lot of DC on my mains. This seems to make an additional, but small, positive difference. I did try a supply using a voltage regulator on the output but this flattened the sound quite dramatically. It seems that a high instantaneous current capability is more important than rock steady voltage.
Niffy
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It appears pretty straightforward. If someone posts or sends me pics of the pcb top/bottom l'll try and draw a circuit.
Hey Niffy, thanks for posting. How many AC wires from the transformer feed into the box? Two? I thought the same way, using the advanced controller with a 30VA toroidal transformer. Is your DC blocker like a ferrite ring around the cord?
I've read somewhere that the what sets the Ultra and Advanced boxes apart are a couple of resistors and a few semiconductors, so just wondering if anyone in this forum was able to replicate this mod.