By the way, I know it may be off-topic, but since we are also discussing about the motor (apart from the OL controller), I've received a few components, that I am going to try as pulleys. The first two are for rim drive and the other two for belt drive.
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Hey Panos,
Not off topic at all. Looking forward to reading all about it. Great to have pics too!
Are the pulleys held on by grub screws? If not, how do you get them on and off without damaging the motor?
My new EL caps that replaced the 1,000uF 63V are NICHICON 4,700uF 63V 105°C VR(M) series. Nothing flash or specialised. They are working perfectly.
Not off topic at all. Looking forward to reading all about it. Great to have pics too!
Are the pulleys held on by grub screws? If not, how do you get them on and off without damaging the motor?
My new EL caps that replaced the 1,000uF 63V are NICHICON 4,700uF 63V 105°C VR(M) series. Nothing flash or specialised. They are working perfectly.
Hi Sondeknz,
thanks for the feedback about your model of Nichicon caps. So, they are not the so-called 'audio grade'. Good to know.
No, as a matter of fact I have not fastened the pulleys in any way yet. I just placed them on the motor shaft to take the photos. No pulley contains a grub screw. And their bore diameter is 3mm, i.e. equal to the motor shaft. This means that the pulleys slide into place. And two of them also include bearings. My idea is to use one or two drops of glue (or superglue), to fasten the pulleys on the motor shaft. I know it's not the most elegant solution, but I guess it will work.
If you (or anyone in the thread) have other ideas about attaching the pulleys on the shaft, please, speak up. Thanks.
thanks for the feedback about your model of Nichicon caps. So, they are not the so-called 'audio grade'. Good to know.
No, as a matter of fact I have not fastened the pulleys in any way yet. I just placed them on the motor shaft to take the photos. No pulley contains a grub screw. And their bore diameter is 3mm, i.e. equal to the motor shaft. This means that the pulleys slide into place. And two of them also include bearings. My idea is to use one or two drops of glue (or superglue), to fasten the pulleys on the motor shaft. I know it's not the most elegant solution, but I guess it will work.
If you (or anyone in the thread) have other ideas about attaching the pulleys on the shaft, please, speak up. Thanks.
I am really struggling to find 4700μF / 63V capacitors, which are NOT snap-in, i.e. have wire leads. Are 'radial' capacitors vanishing from the market?
I have found a couple of axial capacitors with the right values, as well as other brand too (i.e. LEL). Would they be OK?
axial capacitor
radial capacitor (LEL)
I have found a couple of axial capacitors with the right values, as well as other brand too (i.e. LEL). Would they be OK?
axial capacitor
radial capacitor (LEL)
Hi Panos,
I am certain those Cap values you have ordered will be perfectly suitable for your OL SCU - particularly if you increase your (switchable) voltage supply to (say) DC-12V. In any event, most electronic circuits are pretty tolerant of these minor variations.
I very much look forward to hearing how this capacitor upgrade goes for you.
Meanwhile, I can report that our new LHY AUDIO AC-DC 24V LPS and modified ORIGIN LIVE SCU continue to improve in smoothness with much added “body” to the sound.
It was all a bit lean and bright at first, but those traits are now completely gone and the sound has somewhat reverted back to our normally much more saturated tone, but this time with speed stability, dynamics, detail and coherence that is at a whole new level.
Assuming our 20-year-old ORIGIN LIVE DC-100 DC motor has a few more years left in her, it is very tempting to stop and ignore further upgrades - and just enjoy the music. But there is one more upgrade that I want to complete.
This final upgrade involves (finally) removing the three little screws which serve to bond the (new) STACK AUDIO sub-chassis to the (new) WAND tonearm armboard; not the strongest of junctions, currently.
A purpose-built STACK AUDIO armboard will then be fitted with the WAND PLUS tonearm, specifically designed to mate with the matching STACK AUDIO sub-chassis - using torque-strength fasteners. This will ensure a bond with a level of tension that could never be achieved previously.
It is in my expectation that this will extract yet another lift in playback performance, from our venerable LP12 hot-rod. I will report.
From that point - once the final LP12 rebuild is underway - it will be plinth refinishing time, so the old girl will be looking her spiffy best for her second 40-year stretch. I will be sure to post some BEFORE&AFTER shots.
Exciting times!
😎 👍
I am certain those Cap values you have ordered will be perfectly suitable for your OL SCU - particularly if you increase your (switchable) voltage supply to (say) DC-12V. In any event, most electronic circuits are pretty tolerant of these minor variations.
I very much look forward to hearing how this capacitor upgrade goes for you.
Meanwhile, I can report that our new LHY AUDIO AC-DC 24V LPS and modified ORIGIN LIVE SCU continue to improve in smoothness with much added “body” to the sound.
It was all a bit lean and bright at first, but those traits are now completely gone and the sound has somewhat reverted back to our normally much more saturated tone, but this time with speed stability, dynamics, detail and coherence that is at a whole new level.
Assuming our 20-year-old ORIGIN LIVE DC-100 DC motor has a few more years left in her, it is very tempting to stop and ignore further upgrades - and just enjoy the music. But there is one more upgrade that I want to complete.
This final upgrade involves (finally) removing the three little screws which serve to bond the (new) STACK AUDIO sub-chassis to the (new) WAND tonearm armboard; not the strongest of junctions, currently.
A purpose-built STACK AUDIO armboard will then be fitted with the WAND PLUS tonearm, specifically designed to mate with the matching STACK AUDIO sub-chassis - using torque-strength fasteners. This will ensure a bond with a level of tension that could never be achieved previously.
It is in my expectation that this will extract yet another lift in playback performance, from our venerable LP12 hot-rod. I will report.
From that point - once the final LP12 rebuild is underway - it will be plinth refinishing time, so the old girl will be looking her spiffy best for her second 40-year stretch. I will be sure to post some BEFORE&AFTER shots.
Exciting times!
😎 👍
Hi Panos,
Excellent news on the arrival of your new baby. I look forward to hearing about how this motor works for you. If you are currently running your premotec at ~2.5v I would expect that you will need over 10v for the Maxon. You might need to up the voltage of your power supply in order to get to run fast enough. I don't know what the maximum output voltage of the controller is, minimum is about 1v.
As the maximum voltage that you are likely to be be feeding the controller with is only 24v the capacitor don't need to be 63v. 50v or even 35v would be perfectly adequate. A lower voltage capacitor will be smaller for the same capacity and more likely to have leads rather than snap in tabs.
Niffy
Excellent news on the arrival of your new baby. I look forward to hearing about how this motor works for you. If you are currently running your premotec at ~2.5v I would expect that you will need over 10v for the Maxon. You might need to up the voltage of your power supply in order to get to run fast enough. I don't know what the maximum output voltage of the controller is, minimum is about 1v.
As the maximum voltage that you are likely to be be feeding the controller with is only 24v the capacitor don't need to be 63v. 50v or even 35v would be perfectly adequate. A lower voltage capacitor will be smaller for the same capacity and more likely to have leads rather than snap in tabs.
Niffy
Another little experiment I have performed is to determine the effect of the quality of the wires that connect the power supply to the controller and the controller to the motor.
I only tried a couple of different wire types, a basic 20 gauge multistrand and a DIY wire consisting of four 24 gauge silver plated copper Teflon insulated wires twisted together, 2 positive and 2 negative.
There was a small sonic improvement between the power supply and controller when using the DIY cable. I couldn't hear any difference between the controller and motor.
As the differences were so small I didn't feel it was worth investigating further.
Niffy
I only tried a couple of different wire types, a basic 20 gauge multistrand and a DIY wire consisting of four 24 gauge silver plated copper Teflon insulated wires twisted together, 2 positive and 2 negative.
There was a small sonic improvement between the power supply and controller when using the DIY cable. I couldn't hear any difference between the controller and motor.
As the differences were so small I didn't feel it was worth investigating further.
Niffy
Yes, yes, we all say that this will be the 'final' upgrade... Once you have 'upgraditis', it always stays with you. Sometimes it sleeps, but most of the time it is... awake -))
Hi Niffy,
thanks for your kind wishes. I now have to have a sturdy / heavy motor pod built, that can accommodate both use cases that I intend to test (belt-drive and rim-drive). I would like the motor pod to be decoupled from the plinth and also allow for some height adjustment (+- 3cm). I do not know whether you have any recommendations or advice about what to pay attention to.
With respect to the Nichicon caps, I already had pulled the trigger on the 6800μF / 63V just before I read your post. Had I not been hasty, I might have saved some money and would have perhaps more choices. Anyways...
Panos
Wow, that's what I call FAST delivery. From Poland to Greece in less than 24 hours. And I did not ask for expedited delivery. Kudos to TME and DHL!
Then again, I cannot say that I was not surprised by the size of the caps... I will have to figure out how to fit those two bad boys in the controller box. 🙄
Then again, I cannot say that I was not surprised by the size of the caps... I will have to figure out how to fit those two bad boys in the controller box. 🙄
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Panos,
Looks like your new caps measure 25mm x 50mm. At that width, the first cap will snuggle-in nicely between the 1uF polycap and the bridge rectifier.
I recommend a thin "mattress" of BluTac for the capacitor to rest on, which helps keep it in place.
I'd still recommend starting with just one new cap - particularly because its uF is quite high - and have some time with one new cap, before diving into fitting the second cap.
With the new cap in place, if you find that you are able to successfully increase the transformer voltage supply to 12V on your switchable wall-wart - without the motor vibrations that you experienced with higher voltage input earlier - that would be the best time to think about fitting the second cap. Not before.
[I worry that charging 02 x 6800uF caps (Total 13,600uF) with your present 7.5V DC supply might be difficult for your transformer - and cause problems...]
If you have any other concerns, just reach-out for some detailed thoughts.
Looks like your new caps measure 25mm x 50mm. At that width, the first cap will snuggle-in nicely between the 1uF polycap and the bridge rectifier.
I recommend a thin "mattress" of BluTac for the capacitor to rest on, which helps keep it in place.
I'd still recommend starting with just one new cap - particularly because its uF is quite high - and have some time with one new cap, before diving into fitting the second cap.
With the new cap in place, if you find that you are able to successfully increase the transformer voltage supply to 12V on your switchable wall-wart - without the motor vibrations that you experienced with higher voltage input earlier - that would be the best time to think about fitting the second cap. Not before.
[I worry that charging 02 x 6800uF caps (Total 13,600uF) with your present 7.5V DC supply might be difficult for your transformer - and cause problems...]
If you have any other concerns, just reach-out for some detailed thoughts.
Sondeknz,
yes the dimensions of the 6800μF cap are exactly the ones you said. 25mm diameter and 50mm body length. In the photo you can see how it compares with the current 1000μF cap.
I will try to do the soldering in a while and try to increase the voltage to the maximum my power pack can support (12V). I will report as soon as I can.
Thanks for the support -)
yes the dimensions of the 6800μF cap are exactly the ones you said. 25mm diameter and 50mm body length. In the photo you can see how it compares with the current 1000μF cap.
I will try to do the soldering in a while and try to increase the voltage to the maximum my power pack can support (12V). I will report as soon as I can.
Thanks for the support -)
Hi again,
here is the new cap soldered on the board. It fits, but installing also the second cap will not be an easy task. I will consider it at a later stage. I have also increased the power pack to 12V and after connecting the controller (with the new cap) to the motor, the motor vibrations I could feel in my hand have simply vanished. And the Promotec motor is dead silent. Even placing my ear 1cm from the motor, I can hardly hear it running. Very nice!!!
I have not been able to have a listen, since my Roksan Xerxes has been moved from its usually place, substituted by a renovated Lenco L78.
For the moment I have left the motor running (with no load), so that the cap can form. And later I will connect my new Maxon motor so that its bearings can run in, too.
Let's see. It seems that the cap may prove to be a nice upgrade after all...
here is the new cap soldered on the board. It fits, but installing also the second cap will not be an easy task. I will consider it at a later stage. I have also increased the power pack to 12V and after connecting the controller (with the new cap) to the motor, the motor vibrations I could feel in my hand have simply vanished. And the Promotec motor is dead silent. Even placing my ear 1cm from the motor, I can hardly hear it running. Very nice!!!
I have not been able to have a listen, since my Roksan Xerxes has been moved from its usually place, substituted by a renovated Lenco L78.
For the moment I have left the motor running (with no load), so that the cap can form. And later I will connect my new Maxon motor so that its bearings can run in, too.
Let's see. It seems that the cap may prove to be a nice upgrade after all...
Hey Panos,
Nice work!
Great to get a good result with your DC motor performing smoothly under DC-12V supply.
It seems that our suspicions about the (removed) 1,000uF cap have now been confirmed.
There is still space on the PCB to fit both caps - but you probably need to move the newly fitted cap and park it straight between the 1uF and the BR.
Happy to circle this, when you are ready.
As an aside, I'm just in the process of ordering a decent CAPACITOR TESTER, as testing capacitors and ensuring their operation is pretty foundational with these electronics projects.
Nice work!
Great to get a good result with your DC motor performing smoothly under DC-12V supply.
It seems that our suspicions about the (removed) 1,000uF cap have now been confirmed.
There is still space on the PCB to fit both caps - but you probably need to move the newly fitted cap and park it straight between the 1uF and the BR.
Happy to circle this, when you are ready.
As an aside, I'm just in the process of ordering a decent CAPACITOR TESTER, as testing capacitors and ensuring their operation is pretty foundational with these electronics projects.
Well, I wonder how many years I have been listening to my turntable with a noisy Origin Live controller. Now the motor is dead silent, to the point that I am wondering whether there was any point in purchasing a new motor (Maxon).
And apart from the belt drive, I have also tested the rim-drive approach and that works fine, too. In both cases the measurements from the RPM iphone app indicate a wow & flutter of less than 0.14%, which is not the best, but is not bad either. Of course, the most important thing is to do some critical listening, but I'll hopefully get to that point soon enough, i.e. in the next few days or maybe next week, because I will be on a trip this weekend.
And of course, at some point I may even put the Roksan Xerxes vs the (renovated) Lenco L78 in a head-to-head comparison. Some may say it's like comparing apples and oranges, but they both spin records, don't they? 😉
And apart from the belt drive, I have also tested the rim-drive approach and that works fine, too. In both cases the measurements from the RPM iphone app indicate a wow & flutter of less than 0.14%, which is not the best, but is not bad either. Of course, the most important thing is to do some critical listening, but I'll hopefully get to that point soon enough, i.e. in the next few days or maybe next week, because I will be on a trip this weekend.
And of course, at some point I may even put the Roksan Xerxes vs the (renovated) Lenco L78 in a head-to-head comparison. Some may say it's like comparing apples and oranges, but they both spin records, don't they? 😉
Hi Panos,
Well that all sounds very positive. Nice work on the cap swap.
As you are wondering if there was any point in purchasing the maxon I think I can probably set your mind at rest. Of all the upgrades that I've made to my turntable drive system by FAR the biggest was swapping the motor. This one upgrade made several times more difference than all of the others put together. We will not be disappointed.
Niffy
Well that all sounds very positive. Nice work on the cap swap.
As you are wondering if there was any point in purchasing the maxon I think I can probably set your mind at rest. Of all the upgrades that I've made to my turntable drive system by FAR the biggest was swapping the motor. This one upgrade made several times more difference than all of the others put together. We will not be disappointed.
Niffy