I'm not sure which version you are referring to that is larger.
I don't have one yet, the Beryllium is very tempting but very expensive and currently unavailable. I have been musing about what I could use below it if I did get one and I already have a pair of 12PR320's sitting in a cupboard.
BMS 4550 is bolt on.
I have no idea what these simulations are supposed to show
The sim was to say to myself that it is maybe easier to cut off with a Biesma, for 500 hz and up, just few values are changing with a simple 12 dB electrical passive (I try to convince myself it can be KISS but I am a noob in filter design). Here in this sim the - 6dB at 400 hz can be a cut off point if I am correct ? this driver with its good sensivity is easy to sim flat way higher I meant.
The ST280CE is the little larger and flatest itteration. I try to find the post... SAW TNT post about the printing notation... tempting !
My bad for the BMS. If the ST horn is ok for the Faital, the next step could be the hunt of the rigth 1", I do not know if a throat extension is advised with the ST260 or ST280CE... too hard a thread to follow for my basics !
Anyway thanks for all the good advices and testimonialsprovided by members in this thread. Hope it will continue, feel free to advice please 🙂
The ST280CE is the little larger and flatest itteration. I try to find the post... SAW TNT post about the printing notation... tempting !
My bad for the BMS. If the ST horn is ok for the Faital, the next step could be the hunt of the rigth 1", I do not know if a throat extension is advised with the ST260 or ST280CE... too hard a thread to follow for my basics !
Anyway thanks for all the good advices and testimonialsprovided by members in this thread. Hope it will continue, feel free to advice please 🙂
That 12pr320 Is good, isn't It ?
For the price It gives what is asked for.
Want to be picky? Analyse It from a diameter viewpoint, it'll give that response. Don't want that physical behaviour ? Get a smaller driver.
Or use It in a monkey box, with specifics attaining hi-fi so pistonic range etc .
But if I'd want good bass and mids to blend with a 1"CD at 2k in a light enclosure, I'd choose It.
For the price It gives what is asked for.
Want to be picky? Analyse It from a diameter viewpoint, it'll give that response. Don't want that physical behaviour ? Get a smaller driver.
Or use It in a monkey box, with specifics attaining hi-fi so pistonic range etc .
But if I'd want good bass and mids to blend with a 1"CD at 2k in a light enclosure, I'd choose It.
@fluid : found the post about the sligthy larger ST280E I was refering above. flatter DI. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-design-the-easy-way-ath4.338806/post-6760060
That is quite a different pattern to the ST260 or CE360, beamier particularly on axis, the radiation impedance is dropping from 1.5K so any help from the waveguide is going down from that point. Something to think about if you were hoping to cross lower.
If it's orange that's a Faital : https://www.oleomac.fr/fr-fr/produits/gh-44-pk-21008/
Ah find it : https://www.sbaudience.com/index.php/products/compression-drivers/bianco-44cd-pk1/
Maybe the 11° exit angle is ok ? Thanks for that ref, I will ask in ATH thread if I do not find the exit angle for that horn.
Ah find it : https://www.sbaudience.com/index.php/products/compression-drivers/bianco-44cd-pk1/
Maybe the 11° exit angle is ok ? Thanks for that ref, I will ask in ATH thread if I do not find the exit angle for that horn.
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thanks fluid,
is the 380 should be more correct than the ST260 then ? (ok forget the 280E). The thing is I am planning passive XO if possible. the flat DI attracted me to avoid EQ...
is the 380 should be more correct than the ST260 then ? (ok forget the 280E). The thing is I am planning passive XO if possible. the flat DI attracted me to avoid EQ...
It doesn't really matter that much unless you went from a very wide exit angle to a very narrow entry angle. It's better if they match but not enough to worry about if you don't have the ability to modify the profile and re-create the STL files.
The CE360 is bigger and will hold it's directivity to a lower frequency but it does need to be built from petals and a base in the available STL. It isn't that hard to make a complete file for printing from a commercial vendor in one go but I don't think one exists right now to just download.
There is the ST260 KVAR as well, looks different and there are some measured results available
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-design-the-easy-way-ath4.338806/post-7010925
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-design-the-easy-way-ath4.338806/post-7086358
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-design-the-easy-way-ath4.338806/post-7015019
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There are a couple of 12" loudspeaker examples on Dr. Geddes website, too.
http://www.gedlee.com/Loudspeakers/Loudspeakers.aspx
Not 100% sure as to where he chose to XO but it looks like it might be in the 8-900hz range. .. Ask him?
http://www.gedlee.com/Loudspeakers/Loudspeakers.aspx
Not 100% sure as to where he chose to XO but it looks like it might be in the 8-900hz range. .. Ask him?
Eminence N340T-8. https://www.parts-express.com/Eminence-N314T-8-1.4-Neo-Compression-Driver-4-Bolt-290-5608
$219 today.
Notice Pano recommended a 1" CD. The ability to produce 500 watts in PA speaker doesn't mean they sound bad at 1/8 watt where I run mine. I've heard Peavey PV-15 (1" CD 15" woofer) and SP2(2004)(1.4"+15" woofer) and much prefer the sound of my SP2(2004). Cris661 on PA forum said, I think, that 1" CD 2 way PA speakers tend to have limited dispersion. He is a very experienced music venue designer in UK.
You haven't said how big a room you have , how many in the audience, shape of room, how loud do you want parties to be, or if you are just listening at home. You haven't said where your hearing rolls off. 99.99% of men over 12 have lost all hearing above ~7000 hz due to noise exposure. Why I don't need a 3 way, 14000-20000 hz is covered up by the whistles in my Army damaged ears. Like I you I was trying to duplicate the Voice of the Theater I heard in 1966 before my ears were damaged by the army.
You can also experiment with crossover point. Instead of buying one series cap for tweeter, buy three smaller ones. Crossover frequency varies if you use one, or parallel two, or parallel three. Test all 3 ways. If you need 3 parallel caps for 800 hz crossover, you haven't wasted any money, just some weight. Frankly I find 15" woofer 2 way fine to 2000 hz crossover if the box is super engineered for dispersion. 12" woofer 2 way should be a natch. In a 12" woofer you should be able to get by with a parallel wall box. No reason to spend $$$$ on exotic solutions with the best speaker I've heard uses a $179 1.4" CD RX22. Note the Peavey is threaded horn CD, all others are bolt on. That PH 2" throat you quoted was $109, whereas a similar mouth 1.4" horn was $49 last time I checked. Only reason I see to build a 3 way is to cover 15000-20000 hz too, which most people (me) can't hear.
Be sure to limit the CD with a series lamp bulb, you don't want a mike feedback or switching pop to blow it up.
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@puppet : I remember his 12" kit, certainly the rigth choice for most interiors in spite of the big Suma that needs space according John Patrick bateman member IIRC.
I do not want to rediscover the butter cutting wire as I certainly wouldn't find it alone, hence the reality check here 🙂.
What I resume for the moment :
-1) the 26 cm Mabat's 260ST seems a good candidate for a modern design and affordable with an outsourced print for my budget.
2) It is a 1" CD entry, few candidates that can goes low towards 800 hz cut-off at domestic spl level needs are talked: BMS4550 (800 hz cut off possible with steep slope) but certainly not that easy to EQ passive. Faital HF108 and I assume easier HF10AK (less EQ or no EQ possible perhaps)
3) Cut off from 800 hz to circa 1200 hz.. Some say a good 12" has no problem as high as the second number for a Xo. I am certainly a little stressed about more than 800/900 hz cut-off but dunno fo real.
4)360CE horn with its 36 cm is certainly attractive but a mess to assemble as a multi parts stl files for home printing (I will outsource not having 3D P.)
I remember Earl saying he liked not going higher than 500 hz for the cut-off.
I do not know yet :
A) if the power mismatch needs between a 12" PA 300W and a 1compression used below 1W with a passive filter asks for biamp ?
B) if the horn that appeals me is a good choice with no DSP for the EQ
while some simple parametrics exist in few Raspi distros if needed like Camilla DSP perhaps, also if going the active bi amp and filtering road.. but the simple good passive that is fire & forget has my preference : time alignement around the Xo can be made by physical placement on a free standing horn stacked on the 12" cabinet.
D
I do not want to rediscover the butter cutting wire as I certainly wouldn't find it alone, hence the reality check here 🙂.
What I resume for the moment :
-1) the 26 cm Mabat's 260ST seems a good candidate for a modern design and affordable with an outsourced print for my budget.
2) It is a 1" CD entry, few candidates that can goes low towards 800 hz cut-off at domestic spl level needs are talked: BMS4550 (800 hz cut off possible with steep slope) but certainly not that easy to EQ passive. Faital HF108 and I assume easier HF10AK (less EQ or no EQ possible perhaps)
3) Cut off from 800 hz to circa 1200 hz.. Some say a good 12" has no problem as high as the second number for a Xo. I am certainly a little stressed about more than 800/900 hz cut-off but dunno fo real.
4)360CE horn with its 36 cm is certainly attractive but a mess to assemble as a multi parts stl files for home printing (I will outsource not having 3D P.)
I remember Earl saying he liked not going higher than 500 hz for the cut-off.
I do not know yet :
A) if the power mismatch needs between a 12" PA 300W and a 1compression used below 1W with a passive filter asks for biamp ?
B) if the horn that appeals me is a good choice with no DSP for the EQ
while some simple parametrics exist in few Raspi distros if needed like Camilla DSP perhaps, also if going the active bi amp and filtering road.. but the simple good passive that is fire & forget has my preference : time alignement around the Xo can be made by physical placement on a free standing horn stacked on the 12" cabinet.
D
@indianajo, if in US or GB, I assume I will lurk on an (enormous) EV DH1 🙂 ! Thanks for the ref, very good brand Emminence is.
I mixed up the output 1" size with the 1.75" diagphragm size, in the post : so plenty of 1" output CD...a lot are flat without big deep since 900 hz... rarer if 800 hz cut off as often there are big 5 db pitt and more in between in the low end of that 1" ! Here the Faital HF10AK is very cool for a 800hz low end and cheaper I assume in EC than US.
Yes it will be as low budget as possible. the two 12" costed me 230 euros the pair. Had few wood but alas not dense enough poplar ply. Dense black HDF (800 kG/m3) cost around 130 euros a 244 cm x 124 cm here. The planned 104 l netto needs just one pannel as I can make a mdf/ply CLD for the removable back and enough for the braces..
It will be if it borns : a modest Open Source Little Monkey Tree : excellent OSMC thread has been an inspiration.
I mixed up the output 1" size with the 1.75" diagphragm size, in the post : so plenty of 1" output CD...a lot are flat without big deep since 900 hz... rarer if 800 hz cut off as often there are big 5 db pitt and more in between in the low end of that 1" ! Here the Faital HF10AK is very cool for a 800hz low end and cheaper I assume in EC than US.
Yes it will be as low budget as possible. the two 12" costed me 230 euros the pair. Had few wood but alas not dense enough poplar ply. Dense black HDF (800 kG/m3) cost around 130 euros a 244 cm x 124 cm here. The planned 104 l netto needs just one pannel as I can make a mdf/ply CLD for the removable back and enough for the braces..
It will be if it borns : a modest Open Source Little Monkey Tree : excellent OSMC thread has been an inspiration.
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These work well with the JBL 2431A https://www.amazon.com/LASE-10-5-Horn-Constant-Directivity/dp/B07N8ZN58R Also others by B@C RCF.
Most compression drivers are much more sensitive than woofers. (sound db @ 1w1m) SO the designers of passive crossovers pad them down with series resistors to equal the woofer in volume. You get some volume drop from the parallel inductor to the CD of a 12 db/octave high pass crossover. Some people use a L-pad for experimenting with the series resistor instead of a sack of 20 watt resistors added or removed 1 or two at a time. The limiter lamp (tungsten bulb) provides some of the series resistance cold, which increases suddenly if a source with too much high frequency (crunch guitar waves, mike feedback scream) comes through the amp.
Personally for experimenting I'm going to test one speaker with a stereo amp, woofer on one channel, tweeter on other, crossover done by a used $60 graphic equalizer. I don't want a DSP, requires a smart phone and I don't want one. I have a stupid phone. Also op systems change twice a year, interfaces change and old peripherals get obsolete with drivers for the new PC or phone. 1/4 phone jacks on a graphic equalizer stay the same for 100 years. After I find the curve that makes the combo sound good, I'll try to emulate that with coils resistors & capacitors so I only have to run one stereo amp 14 hours a day for two speakers when I listen to the radio.
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