If you do anything to change the separation of the woofer to fullrange CTC or front to back offset distances (offset fullrange on top) or the baffle width (make a smaller round endcap Dagger), the default passive crossover that has been designed and tested, won’t work anymore. You will need to redesign the crossover or use DSP and active crossover.
Five sided wooden Dagger in post 1417. It’s not easy to find so I don’t blame you.
Post 2067 shows 4 sided Dagger:
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Thanks for this. I was just hoping to find the dimensions of the panels.Five sided wooden Dagger in post 1417. It’s not easy to find so I don’t blame you.
I found you mentioned that each panel should have a mitred cut of 36 degrees. And that they are 12.5” long, but nothing about base width?
You’ve given dimensions for the 3 sided dagger on page 1.
Fully understood. I’m actually building an “exact” copy of the sealed speaker first, nearly done.
I happen to have a spare set of rs225-4’s that I was thinking of building the TL for and sitting different FR drivers on top of the cabinet in a self standing, dagger TL, all run actively as a WAW/FAST test bed to swap different drivers through. I was hoping with a nice rounded faceplate I’d get some excellent baffle dispersion characteristics combined with the dagger backwave control.
I’m going to make an SB23NRXs45-8 woofer and PS95-8 version of the FAST speaker now. I have had the baffles cut for this forever and now just getting around to installing the rear Dagger sports cone to the baffle. Ever since I heard how good the PS95-8 can sound with the appropriate filter (lots of top end like a dome tweeter), it gave me some inspiration to try this. I’m not sure if I can do a first order crossover like I did with the RS225-8 but we will see. Might have to be an asymmetric Harsch like filter. So I installed the sports cones with some (expired) Liquid Nails adhesive. It was so thick I could not dispense with the caulking gun but had to use a gloved finger to spread it. Now wait overnight for adhesive to set then install in the cabinet tomorrow. What to do to get two sets of wires out of the sealed box though to do the crossover. I might to install a second set of binding posts.
Here is PS95-8 with appropriate filter - you can see the top end extension:
Here is PS95-8 with appropriate filter - you can see the top end extension:
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Easiest thing to do is build a template with cardboard to see what size works to make a 5 sided Dagger. I didn’t build it myself as my cabinet maker did it and I recall he said he made it with thin Masonite as test case. Make the mouth large enough to fit the driver and some added padding on the side walls. About 5.5in wide at the base or thereabouts and about 11in tall.
I messed up on the acoustic offset for the XO sim so things were off and never sounded right. I got that fixed and moved the XO to 1kHz so that it can be a FAST. The crossover is a bit more complex and larger parts now - so not an inexpensive XO. But well worth it since the PS95-8 has such a great top end and the SB23 gives some nice sensitivity even after baffle step. 86dB at 2.83v and -3dB is about 51Hz (sealed box alignment with 24 liter volume).
Here is the new XO at 1kHz. It’s not transient perfect but same absolute phase. I am actually using 37uF (22uF +15uF) at C3 so closer to 36.5uF suggested by the filter wizard.
Here are actual measurements of XO behavior:
Bottom line is that it sounds fantastic! Very nice and I am letting it break in now. Couple of tracks so far sound so good. Very musical and engaging and loveley sound on high hats with a lot of air. But never fatiguing.
Here is the new XO at 1kHz. It’s not transient perfect but same absolute phase. I am actually using 37uF (22uF +15uF) at C3 so closer to 36.5uF suggested by the filter wizard.
Here are actual measurements of XO behavior:
Bottom line is that it sounds fantastic! Very nice and I am letting it break in now. Couple of tracks so far sound so good. Very musical and engaging and loveley sound on high hats with a lot of air. But never fatiguing.
Here’s the final crossover now properly voiced. I increased the padding on R1 a tad bit to make the 1kHz -3kHz reduced by 1.5dB for a less forward presentation and less listener fatigue. The speaker is playing in stereo and the bass is surprisingly deep.
I really had to scrounge through my collection of crossover parts to find a stereo set of components for this speaker:
Here’s a recording of test tracks. Many different genres so it’s a long recording.
This speaker is different enough to warrant its own thread. Being a 1kHz crossover and using a full range as the tweeter, it probably should stay in the Fullrage Forum vs Multi-way. Although the XO is pretty complex now it may be better over there?
I really had to scrounge through my collection of crossover parts to find a stereo set of components for this speaker:
Here’s a recording of test tracks. Many different genres so it’s a long recording.
This speaker is different enough to warrant its own thread. Being a 1kHz crossover and using a full range as the tweeter, it probably should stay in the Fullrage Forum vs Multi-way. Although the XO is pretty complex now it may be better over there?
The sound is balanced like the RS225/10F but because of dual paper cone drivers there seems to be a bit more detail. Also, the top end reach gives a lot of sparkle and air to cymbals, high hats, etc without it being fatiguing. The midrange of vocals when played through paper cone drivers, is very smooth and organic sounding. There is a slightly higher level of second harmonic (sweeter) distortion on the woofer at lower frequencies below 150Hz. This may be more result of sealed box alignment which compresses the softer paper cone on the backstroke. If vented it may reduce this.
My personal assessment is that this speaker sounds more focused and has a sharper nature without being overly harsh or brittle. Voicing will continue over next few weeks and is a long term process. But it’s 90% there at this point. I think you will understand the nature of this speaker with the name I have chosen for this speaker: the Vanguard Archer.
Have a listen to the YT video using good headphones and you will get a feel.
My personal assessment is that this speaker sounds more focused and has a sharper nature without being overly harsh or brittle. Voicing will continue over next few weeks and is a long term process. But it’s 90% there at this point. I think you will understand the nature of this speaker with the name I have chosen for this speaker: the Vanguard Archer.
Have a listen to the YT video using good headphones and you will get a feel.
Sometimes you have to put things in their head and try it out. Given the original FAST speaker design in this thread used the woofer in top and tweeter in the bottom to improve the time alignment, I flipped the box upside down and inverted the tweeter connection to match the phase. It sounds quite nice and tames the 7.5kHz peak. The sensitivity went up 1dB and the bass extension went 2Hz lower. Now -3dB is at 49Hz and sensitivity is about 86dB at 2.84v.
Here’s the difference:
Time alignment is very good (mic is inverted so absolute phase is positive for the woofer):
The minus is that there is less output above 16kHz - however, still sounds very good with respect to air from cymbals and high hats.
Here’s the difference:
Time alignment is very good (mic is inverted so absolute phase is positive for the woofer):
The minus is that there is less output above 16kHz - however, still sounds very good with respect to air from cymbals and high hats.
I have been getting a lot of PM’s asking for “plans” of the sealed cabinet for the 10f/RS225 FAST speaker. I never published drawings but the box is so simple you can build it based on this description…
Dimensions of sealed box version: most important is to make the width 10.0in (external) and CTC spacing between drivers 7.5in and adjust the depth and height so that you have about 24 liters volume. If you make it out of 18mm plywood it ends up about 18in H x 13.5in D. The 10F is located 4.5in top to center. You will need a rear chamber for tweeter (fullrange) so use a sports cone or wooded “Dagger” tall 4 to 5 sided pyramid. Stuff Dagger and main box with polyfill or fiberglass to taste.
These pictures should help you build it. Notice the window brace. Having a removable front baffle makes assembly and adjustment easier but is not required. I used it to allow swapping drivers by changing front baffle plates.
If someone has SketchUp or other CAD files for this sealed cabinet that you have made, please feel free to post it to help out the community.
Dimensions of sealed box version: most important is to make the width 10.0in (external) and CTC spacing between drivers 7.5in and adjust the depth and height so that you have about 24 liters volume. If you make it out of 18mm plywood it ends up about 18in H x 13.5in D. The 10F is located 4.5in top to center. You will need a rear chamber for tweeter (fullrange) so use a sports cone or wooded “Dagger” tall 4 to 5 sided pyramid. Stuff Dagger and main box with polyfill or fiberglass to taste.
These pictures should help you build it. Notice the window brace. Having a removable front baffle makes assembly and adjustment easier but is not required. I used it to allow swapping drivers by changing front baffle plates.
If someone has SketchUp or other CAD files for this sealed cabinet that you have made, please feel free to post it to help out the community.
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