The pro woofer is not really an option without DSP but with the right driver can be a superb choice if DSP is available. Seas don't have a driver that can keep up with the 12HP1060 if high output level and low distortion are your goal.
That 18 Sound XT1464 horn looks good although it wasn't initially the aesthetics I was looking for. I saw a picture of someone using a white SEOS waveguide on a top of a concrete open baffle speaker, which I liked the look of.
But perhaps I could mod the XT1464 and had it painted and it would look good in a design. Gotta think about it.
Btw I still know very little about compression drivers. I've never heard them in a hi-fi setup. Besides the advantages with a 1.4" being able to cross lower and heaving more of the FR coming from a single source, does the larger diaphragm lack any high frequency details? Will it be as "airy and smooth" as e.g. a 1" Faital HF10AK which Audio Elite suggested in the last post? And if used a 1" driver, which horn/waveguide would you suggest if not the SEOS?
I've had the seos 12 for ten years with B&C DE250's or Peerless DFM2544(I like these better). One thing I don't like about crossing it below 2khz is that the dispersion starts to lose control vertically before horizontally. I prefer more symmetrical control if possible. Lots of people don't seem to have an issue with that.
The main difference between 1.4" and 1" is dispersion above 10khz. Personally I think the advantages of a larger driver outweigh the slight differences in upper dispersion. I hear no difference in high frequency details...except that the larger drivers stay cleaner at high spl than smaller format drivers. I hear clearly up to 17khz.
Either choice will ultimately work. Personal choices.
The main difference between 1.4" and 1" is dispersion above 10khz. Personally I think the advantages of a larger driver outweigh the slight differences in upper dispersion. I hear no difference in high frequency details...except that the larger drivers stay cleaner at high spl than smaller format drivers. I hear clearly up to 17khz.
Either choice will ultimately work. Personal choices.
Last edited:
Thanjs for the suggestion! Which waveguide/horn did you like the Faital HF10AK in?
people seem to like the 2" over the 1.4" drivers, but they need more eq (well, yea).
I've had luck with 1.4"/1.5" crossed as low as 750 but a more comfortable 1khz-1.2khz (ev dh7a, jbl 2435hpl, and jbl 2431h) usually horn dependent where to cross (ev hr90 (800), jbl 2384 (750), and jbl pt-h1010hf (1,200)).
I've had luck with 1.4"/1.5" crossed as low as 750 but a more comfortable 1khz-1.2khz (ev dh7a, jbl 2435hpl, and jbl 2431h) usually horn dependent where to cross (ev hr90 (800), jbl 2384 (750), and jbl pt-h1010hf (1,200)).
Admittedly I use them in a 3 way, but they should be quite happy crossing over to a 10" at between 1200 and 1400hz. I use them in the faital ST100 horn. They are more detailed and smooth than top end Be Tweeters costing several hundred Dollars more!
Thanks for the input. How much do you think you liking the Faital HF10AK has to do with the horn/waveguide? I.e. do you think the HF10AK would work well with e.g. the SEOS-12? And if so, would it in your opinion make sense to try and actively cross it around 1200Hz to my Faital Pro 12HP1060?
This is one option I am also considering. The hype around the HF10AK seems legit. My only waveguides are the 1" QSC clones that people seem to really like. Think it's good for about a 1200hz crossover... DSP would definitely alleviate some concerns and take some work off your plate vs passive networks. Curious what becomes of this.
I've built cabinets with QSC clone horn + BC DE250 + PA310-8 sealed, and QSC + HF10AK + Faital 12PR300 vented. Hypex Fusion for the power/filters. LR4 crossovers at around 1300Hz. Both sound great. The vented Faital version sounds excellent even at moderate PA volumes (with a sub). At home listening levels there is plenty of HF headroom. I attribute success to a nearly perfect wide-dispersion constant directivity horn, poly tweeter diaphragm, and a woofer without ugly resonance peaks right above the crossover. For the money and simplicity I doubt it can be done much better (but I am interested in hearing others opinions!)
BTW, the genesis of these designs comes from the "Econowave" a massive DIY project conceived by a man named "Zilch" (R.I.P.) that many people have contributed to over the years, using any combination of horns, CDs and pro woofers in a standard Parts-Express flat-pack cabinet, all catalogued with passive X-over specs. Google it!
BTW, the genesis of these designs comes from the "Econowave" a massive DIY project conceived by a man named "Zilch" (R.I.P.) that many people have contributed to over the years, using any combination of horns, CDs and pro woofers in a standard Parts-Express flat-pack cabinet, all catalogued with passive X-over specs. Google it!
The SEOS waveguides I originally had it mind don't seem to be easily available. I got in touch with Horns by Auto-Tech in Poland and they can make two SEOS-12 in glossy white for €250 (~$280), which I think is a bit expensive. I also heard good things about the QCS horn clones and found this one on Parts Express, which I assume is the same as you have? They are pretty cheap, so perhaps they would be a good option to start testing.
Thanks for the input. I'm currently leaning towards the QSC HPR152i horn clones with the Faital HF10AK and my 12HP1060 actively crossed around 1200Hz.
I'm aware fo the Econowave project but haven't read the whole thread (yet).
I'm actually considering both the DE250 and HF10AK with the QSC clone horn. Could you elaborate on their performance and how they compare to each other? Do they sound very different?
They don't sound different after equalization IMO.
The B&C rolls off higher and faster at the low end (manufacturer recommended XO @1600Hz) For home use it doesn't seem to get stressed at all crossed at 1200Hz and I think some people have gone lower (check out Geddes Summa/OS waveguide threads - there's lots of stuff here on this site) Even at ear-splitting SPL in your living room its only going to see a few watts of power.
I chose the HF10AK for PA use since it has a much more robust low end (Faital says minimum XO at 1300Hz) and seems to be a bit more efficient overall - but that's hard to say from looking at the spec sheets since they are tested on different horns.
The B&C rolls off higher and faster at the low end (manufacturer recommended XO @1600Hz) For home use it doesn't seem to get stressed at all crossed at 1200Hz and I think some people have gone lower (check out Geddes Summa/OS waveguide threads - there's lots of stuff here on this site) Even at ear-splitting SPL in your living room its only going to see a few watts of power.
I chose the HF10AK for PA use since it has a much more robust low end (Faital says minimum XO at 1300Hz) and seems to be a bit more efficient overall - but that's hard to say from looking at the spec sheets since they are tested on different horns.
Last edited:
Thanks a lot for the information, that's very appreciated! I think I'll go with the HF10AK then since it can cross a little lower. This will be my first attempt with horns and I may change some things down the road so I guess it will be good to have a more versatile compression driver.
Now I need to find the best suited horn/waveguide. So far these are on my shortlist.
They are not too expensive so I'm thinking I could purchase a few and test them out. But are any of the above not suited for my setup? Or am I missing some other good candidates?
Check also RCF H100 horn. I use it with DE250 crossed at 1400. Lower I use 12" 12PE32 in small sealed box. I like the 90/75 degree dispersion.. in my small room it sounds better somehow than a 90/40 degree horn I used before.
Thanks for the tip! I’ll add the RFC H100 to the list.
That sounds like a really nice setup you have there. High sensitivity! What LF extension do you get from a sealed 12PE32? I assume you have subwoofers?
The 12pe32 sealed box doesn't go low indeed, is crossed to a 18" sealed with FaitalPro 18hf500 at 170hz LR4, FIR linear phase filter done in RePhase. I use EqualizerAPO under Windows 10 to do crossover duty.
Cool. That's a very dynamic system you got there! Not many watts required to reach ear-shattering levels for home use. Well maybe for the subs, but I'm guessing you're nowhere near pushing them to their limits.
That is right. For the mids and highs I use a Yamaha P2040, class AB with 4x25W. For bass I use a Pioneer A209 with 2x40W. It is enough .. 🙂