Thanks! I don't have a build thread. The sealed box is 160 liters, braced as good as I could. The small sealed box for the 12" is octagonal so that the volume is just 11 liters. I used it before as a back chamber for a horn. MDF not painted, I will do a synergy soon so no finish needed now..
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Very nice! That 18" makes everything else look small 😀 Are you planing on making a synergy with those drivers? Including the 18"?? 😱
Btw any relation to Denmark? Couldn't help notice that Louisiana poster 🙂
You are right 🙂) My girlfriend bought that from Denmark, she visited an art expo.
The synergy is built around a B-52 horn, with DE250, 2x Visaton Frs8m and one b&c 10CL 51. Below the 18” in sealed or open baffle configuration. I am waiting for the B52 horns to arrive from US.
The synergy is built around a B-52 horn, with DE250, 2x Visaton Frs8m and one b&c 10CL 51. Below the 18” in sealed or open baffle configuration. I am waiting for the B52 horns to arrive from US.
Your suggestion to use a 1.4 inch driver made me research more about large woofer two-ways with compression drivers (lots of inspiration from the Beyond the Ariel thread). I found many designs using 1.4 instead of 1 inch. It makes sense to me to use a slightly larger comp driver with the ability to cross lower if needed.
So the HF146 + XT1464 seems like a good, cheap, and versatile option for me to start experimenting. However I’m not a big fan of the looks of the XT1464, and to me the aesthetic of a loudspeaker is just as important as the performance.
I like designs with a free standing horn/waveguide on top of the bass cabinet, especially the white glossy horns like Azurahorns or Auto-Tech. I could see myself eventually build something with a SEOS or Le Cleach horn.
My question is could a 1.4” comp driver like the HF146 work well in e.g. a SEOS-15 or JMLC-600 with active crossover around 1000hz? And would they perform similarly to the XT1464 if EQ’ed?
That is a deep white horn.
Hi hope you don't want much dispersion.
I remember someone liking the stereo lab tractrix (round) maybe the 400hz horn crossed at 800hz, until he stood up (no highs).
I like the idea of autotech's spherical horns.
But the xt1464 has smooth paths that should make for very good sound, but 30 degrees off axis and more it is dropping off quick the higher in freq you go.
Test Bench: Eighteen Sound ND3ST 1.4” Compression Driver | audioXpress
Hi hope you don't want much dispersion.
I remember someone liking the stereo lab tractrix (round) maybe the 400hz horn crossed at 800hz, until he stood up (no highs).
I like the idea of autotech's spherical horns.
But the xt1464 has smooth paths that should make for very good sound, but 30 degrees off axis and more it is dropping off quick the higher in freq you go.
Test Bench: Eighteen Sound ND3ST 1.4” Compression Driver | audioXpress
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Like Norman says the JMLC will sound good in one seated position but will dull quickly if you move your head out of range.
The SEOS-15/18 would work similar to the XT1464 but with wider dispersion. A good choice.
Thanks for the input.
So generally speaking the high frequency dispersion decreases when the size of the driver’s diaphragm but also the size of the horn increases? And if I’m understanding you correctly, round horns like the JMLC have worse dispersion compared to newer types like the SEOS or the XT1464.
I think I need to test my 12HP1060 woofers and see how high I can cross them. Maybe just pair them up with my Speedster bookshelves and the miniDSP. Then based on my findings I can see how low I need to cross and figure out if 1.4 inch is needed or if I can get away with a 1 inch and a smaller horn for better high frequency extension and dispersion.
So generally speaking the high frequency dispersion decreases when the size of the driver’s diaphragm but also the size of the horn increases? And if I’m understanding you correctly, round horns like the JMLC have worse dispersion compared to newer types like the SEOS or the XT1464.
I think I need to test my 12HP1060 woofers and see how high I can cross them. Maybe just pair them up with my Speedster bookshelves and the miniDSP. Then based on my findings I can see how low I need to cross and figure out if 1.4 inch is needed or if I can get away with a 1 inch and a smaller horn for better high frequency extension and dispersion.
Not directly related to size, it's the shape of the horn/waveguide that determines the dispersion pattern. Newer large diaphragm drivers don't have the same high frequency restrictions that they used to. On the right horn they give up very little compared to smaller diaphragm drivers. It's more about output requirements rather than high frequency extension.
Round horns could also have good high frequency dispersion if designed that way. JMLC, tractrix, exponential, etc, all have narrowing dispersion with increasing frequency.
Oblate spheroid(OS) waveguides and similar approximations are the best for even dispersion at all working frequencies over a wide range of angles. SEOS fits this criteria for the most part as do the elliptical horns from 18 Sound.
Red Spade Audio: Oblate spheroid waveguides
That system would make for a nice 3-way in its own right.
Round horns could also have good high frequency dispersion if designed that way. JMLC, tractrix, exponential, etc, all have narrowing dispersion with increasing frequency.
Oblate spheroid(OS) waveguides and similar approximations are the best for even dispersion at all working frequencies over a wide range of angles. SEOS fits this criteria for the most part as do the elliptical horns from 18 Sound.
Red Spade Audio: Oblate spheroid waveguides
That system would make for a nice 3-way in its own right.
What about the Faital 12PR320, this is an exceptionally good sounding woofer!
Thanks for the suggestion. Interesting driver! I see other builds using this in a 3 way but not many in a 2 way. But I looking at the FR it seems to be able to go high enough to cross directly to a compression driver in a horn/waveguide.
If you look here,
Fusion-12 Tempest DIY Sound Group
This Jeff Bagby kit with the Eminence Delta Pro-12A lists an F3 of 37hz in a 2 cubic foot enclosure.
However, no matter how I model it ( box used in Jeff's speaker, 14.5" wide x 26" tall x 14.25" deep with double thick baffle), I cannot come up with that F3.
Fusion-12 Tempest DIY Sound Group
This Jeff Bagby kit with the Eminence Delta Pro-12A lists an F3 of 37hz in a 2 cubic foot enclosure.
However, no matter how I model it ( box used in Jeff's speaker, 14.5" wide x 26" tall x 14.25" deep with double thick baffle), I cannot come up with that F3.
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I am at a crossroads... I have a bunch of B52 waveguides with the Creation CDX1-1745 drivers. Like 4 pair, for a Home Theater project, and finding woofers that are ideal and affordable in quantity is tricky. It's all about trade-offs it seems. Granted, 35hz in HT isn't necessary.
I have a pair of the XT1464 and another few pair of the B52 for HiFi application, and my thinking is that the 1464 is destined for use with a larger woofer like a 15 inch and a lower crossover... But that's just my thinking. Faital Pro has some nice offerings for the money on the HF but again, I don't know what woofers I'd choose.
They money answer would probably be AE.
I have a pair of the XT1464 and another few pair of the B52 for HiFi application, and my thinking is that the 1464 is destined for use with a larger woofer like a 15 inch and a lower crossover... But that's just my thinking. Faital Pro has some nice offerings for the money on the HF but again, I don't know what woofers I'd choose.
They money answer would probably be AE.
b52, nice looking waveguide.
Dimensions: 10" H x 14" W x 5.5" D.
I'd cross it 1.2khz to a 12".
5.5" seems deep, but old school horn theory wants a horn to be minimum 1/2 wavelength deep (not typical 1/4) for treble smoothness.
Then again, my horns are 3" deep and they cross at 1.2khz also, so there is that.
You can cross it lower but you may not have enough mouth for it.
Dimensions: 10" H x 14" W x 5.5" D.
I'd cross it 1.2khz to a 12".
5.5" seems deep, but old school horn theory wants a horn to be minimum 1/2 wavelength deep (not typical 1/4) for treble smoothness.
Then again, my horns are 3" deep and they cross at 1.2khz also, so there is that.
You can cross it lower but you may not have enough mouth for it.
I don't believe this is a concern for waveguides. Axial reflections may still occur if the termination isn't smooth.
This is about a good a list of 12" woofers as you are going to get,
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/327594-source-monkey-box-17.html#post5564759
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/327594-source-monkey-box-17.html#post5564759
I have a similar need but for 9 inch to 11 inch woofer for a closed box (about 33 liter) which I can use Aperiodic or not. Currently I am testing the SB29NRX75-6 in this box (with and without an Aperiodic SS "flow resistor"). Great bass in the lowest octaves but I am really after something all the way up to about 400 Hz or so. The SB29's just don't really meet my needs; they sound too "relaxed" for my tastes above about 150 Hz. I need something that is MORE quick, accurate, articulate and "musical". I am tempted by the SB Satori 9 1/2 inch and the Eton 11 inch both. I'm sure these are better than the SB 29 in the higher bass octaves. I have even considered pro drivers like Eminence, Faital, Beyma, etc. Any closed box (33 liter) f3 in the 40's to low 50's will meet my needs. Max SPL and power handling are NOT major concerns. Impedance 4 Ohms and above a non-issue. Sensitivity should be a minimum of 91 dB re 2.83 VRMS. I like the "sound" of my smaller Satoris; I have had several Eton drivers 8 inches and smaller; I also liked their "sound". Does anyone have an opinion of which type 10 inch nominal PRO DRIVERS would give me the highest possible "Hi Fidelity" sound quality from say 50 Hz to 400 Hz!??
I prefer to keep the costs less than $400 US per driver. Also; could someone point me in the direction of Audio Technology? I have read great things about their 10 inch choices but don't know who stocks them in North America and what their price range might be. (I'm guessing they are probably way beyond my budget; I would like to confirm though).
Thanks for any ideas, experiences, etc.