Vinyl enthusiasts, keep in mind that the several forms of distortion are NOT in the groove - they are generated upon playback. Mastered on a linear-tracking lathe and cut with a chisel shape that is flat across the groove, tracking and tracing distortions are nil. However especially if your pickup stylus is spherical (aka "conical") or even a fat elliptical, tracing distortions (pinch, "poid-like," wall contact due to too light pressure and skating) can add 10% or more distortion and analog clipping (aka "sibilance"). Known from the LP's introduction in 1948, inner groove mistracing limits maximum level undistorted sounds to less than 2kHz (10kHz with a line contact). From the 1970s mastering engineers used line contact styli to monitor potential trouble spots, restarting a new lacquer if playing with the best stylus had distortion. I "wrote the book" on the Phonograph - containing the science, HF & wear charts, free tools for alignment and resonance optimization, and high-performing DIY projects.
Vinyl has some real limitations many seem to want to ignore. Below are some of them. From Wikipedia. (Also, the bass is mono, not stereo even on stereo records). While records are enjoyable and many are recorded quite well, they are far, far from the perfect media to record with.
limitations:
The stereo image was not made up of fully discrete Left and Right channels; each channel's signal coming out of the cartridge contained a small amount of the signal from the other channel, with more crosstalk at higher frequencies. High-quality disc cutting equipment was capable of making a master disc with 30–40 dB of stereo separation at 1,000 Hz, but the playback cartridges had lesser performance of about 20 to 30 dB of separation at 1000 Hz, with separation decreasing as frequency increased, such that at 12 kHz the separation was about 10–15 dB.[72] A common modern view is that stereo isolation must be higher than this to achieve a proper stereo soundstage. However, in the 1950s the BBC determined in a series of tests that only 20–25 dB is required for the impression of full stereo separation.[73]
Thin, closely spaced spiral grooves that allow for increased playing time on a 33 1⁄3 rpm microgroove LP lead to a tinny pre-echo warning of upcoming loud sounds. The cutting stylus unavoidably transfers some of the subsequent groove wall's impulse signal into the previous groove wall. It is discernible by some listeners throughout certain recordings, but a quiet passage followed by a loud sound will allow anyone to hear a faint pre-echo of the loud sound occurring 1.8 seconds ahead of time.[74] This problem can also appear as "post"-echo, with a tinny ghost of the sound arriving 1.8 seconds after its main impulse.
Factory problems involving incomplete flow of hot vinyl within the stamper can fail to accurately recreate a small section of one side of the groove, a problem called non-fill. It usually appears on the first item on a side if present at all. Non-fill makes itself known as a tearing, grating or ripping sound.
A static electric charge can build up on the surface of the spinning record and discharge into the stylus, making a loud "pop". In very dry climates, this can happen several times per minute. Subsequent plays of the same record do not have pops in the same places in the music as the static buildup isn't tied to variations in the groove.
An off-center stamping will apply a slow 0.56 Hz modulation to the playback, affecting pitch due to the modulating speed that the groove runs under the stylus. The effect becomes gradually more acute during playback as the stylus moves closer to the center of the record. It also affects tonality because the stylus is pressed alternately against one groove wall and then the other, making the frequency response change in each channel. This problem is often called "wow", though turntable and motor problems can also cause pitch-only "wow".
Tracking force of the stylus is not always the same from beginning to end of the groove. Stereo balance can shift as the recording progresses.
Outside electrical interference may be amplified by the magnetic cartridge. Common household wallplate SCR dimmers sharing AC lines may put noise into the playback, as can poorly shielded electronics and strong radio transmitters.
Loud sounds in the environment may be transmitted mechanically from the turntable's sympathetic vibration into the stylus. Heavy footfalls can bounce the needle out of the groove.
Because of a slight slope in the lead-in groove, it is possible for the stylus to skip ahead several grooves when settling into position at the start of the recording.
The LP is delicate. Any accidental fumbling with the stylus or dropping of the record onto a sharp corner can scratch the record permanently, creating a series of "ticks" and "pops" heard at each subsequent playback. Heavier accidents can cause the stylus to break through the groove wall as it plays, creating a permanent skip that will cause the stylus to either skip ahead to the next groove or skip back to the previous groove. A skip going to the previous groove is called a broken record; the same section of 1.8 seconds of LP (1.3 s of 45 rpm) music will repeat over and over until the stylus is lifted off the record. It is also possible to put a slight pressure on the headshell causing the stylus to stay in the desired groove, without having a playback break. This requires some skill, but is of great use when, for instance, digitizing a recording, as no information is skipped.
limitations:
The stereo image was not made up of fully discrete Left and Right channels; each channel's signal coming out of the cartridge contained a small amount of the signal from the other channel, with more crosstalk at higher frequencies. High-quality disc cutting equipment was capable of making a master disc with 30–40 dB of stereo separation at 1,000 Hz, but the playback cartridges had lesser performance of about 20 to 30 dB of separation at 1000 Hz, with separation decreasing as frequency increased, such that at 12 kHz the separation was about 10–15 dB.[72] A common modern view is that stereo isolation must be higher than this to achieve a proper stereo soundstage. However, in the 1950s the BBC determined in a series of tests that only 20–25 dB is required for the impression of full stereo separation.[73]
Thin, closely spaced spiral grooves that allow for increased playing time on a 33 1⁄3 rpm microgroove LP lead to a tinny pre-echo warning of upcoming loud sounds. The cutting stylus unavoidably transfers some of the subsequent groove wall's impulse signal into the previous groove wall. It is discernible by some listeners throughout certain recordings, but a quiet passage followed by a loud sound will allow anyone to hear a faint pre-echo of the loud sound occurring 1.8 seconds ahead of time.[74] This problem can also appear as "post"-echo, with a tinny ghost of the sound arriving 1.8 seconds after its main impulse.
Factory problems involving incomplete flow of hot vinyl within the stamper can fail to accurately recreate a small section of one side of the groove, a problem called non-fill. It usually appears on the first item on a side if present at all. Non-fill makes itself known as a tearing, grating or ripping sound.
A static electric charge can build up on the surface of the spinning record and discharge into the stylus, making a loud "pop". In very dry climates, this can happen several times per minute. Subsequent plays of the same record do not have pops in the same places in the music as the static buildup isn't tied to variations in the groove.
An off-center stamping will apply a slow 0.56 Hz modulation to the playback, affecting pitch due to the modulating speed that the groove runs under the stylus. The effect becomes gradually more acute during playback as the stylus moves closer to the center of the record. It also affects tonality because the stylus is pressed alternately against one groove wall and then the other, making the frequency response change in each channel. This problem is often called "wow", though turntable and motor problems can also cause pitch-only "wow".
Tracking force of the stylus is not always the same from beginning to end of the groove. Stereo balance can shift as the recording progresses.
Outside electrical interference may be amplified by the magnetic cartridge. Common household wallplate SCR dimmers sharing AC lines may put noise into the playback, as can poorly shielded electronics and strong radio transmitters.
Loud sounds in the environment may be transmitted mechanically from the turntable's sympathetic vibration into the stylus. Heavy footfalls can bounce the needle out of the groove.
Because of a slight slope in the lead-in groove, it is possible for the stylus to skip ahead several grooves when settling into position at the start of the recording.
The LP is delicate. Any accidental fumbling with the stylus or dropping of the record onto a sharp corner can scratch the record permanently, creating a series of "ticks" and "pops" heard at each subsequent playback. Heavier accidents can cause the stylus to break through the groove wall as it plays, creating a permanent skip that will cause the stylus to either skip ahead to the next groove or skip back to the previous groove. A skip going to the previous groove is called a broken record; the same section of 1.8 seconds of LP (1.3 s of 45 rpm) music will repeat over and over until the stylus is lifted off the record. It is also possible to put a slight pressure on the headshell causing the stylus to stay in the desired groove, without having a playback break. This requires some skill, but is of great use when, for instance, digitizing a recording, as no information is skipped.
Hi, are you from RCA? What do you mean by the apostrophe? Did you write a book or not, and what is the title of that book?
I think a big part of the Analog Source section is about how to overcome the imperfections of vinyl playback. Also all of us know from experience that there are good recordings, excellent recordings and poor recordings, and not the distortion is the differentiator.
A couple things: Google my name Robin Miller and the word Phonograph to find the e-book or paperback. I didn't write it or start this thread to debate whuch is technically superior (uncompressed digital), but to help get better sound than you may be getting now from vinyl, which has nearly a century of recorded history more than is mostly available in digital form. And many audiophiles and reviewers blame recordings or cartridges for sound lacking in their setups, e.g. not attending to capacitive loading that wrecks a MM\MI cartridge's frequency response and hence tone color. There are scientific reasons why and how such a mechanically based and operationally inconvenient medium can sound quite good, not least because mastering engineers worked to maximize the quality within strict limits, and without over-processing the audio.
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Thanks for posting 🙂
Any possibility of reading your book? 🙂
What´s your point?
Actually many don´t, and DIY Audio is an excellent Forum to spread Knowledge.
Maybe because we are in "Analogue Source Turntables, Tonearms, Cartridges, Phono Stages, Tuners, Tape Recorders, etc." area of DIY Audio Forum? 🙄
There's ready access to the book in the UK.
Only £31 for the paperback.
The Better Sound of the Phonograph: How come? How-to!: Amazon.co.uk: Miller, Robin, Bruner, R. A.: 9780692903117: Books
If you look at the evidence. No posts for 4 years on here and then a thread starter that appears to be worded to as to be be imflamatory rather than offering and real starting point for a discussion, of course I am going to ask questions. The OP is either trying to start an argument or sell something. It appears he is selling something in which case this needs to go into the vendors thread.
And most technical authors are humble enough to say they wrote 'a' book...
Hmmm... with over a 100 or so records ("LP") still regularly on the Thorens TD160-SME3-Empire apparatus here, I was not aware of this meager channel separation after some (counting... '63... first buy...) 46 odd years. And never was disstressed by it whatsoever.
This DIY platform proves it needs and semination, in all colours accaptable.
Although, the reference is a live performance proper and prefered anyhow.
This DIY platform proves it needs and semination, in all colours accaptable.
Although, the reference is a live performance proper and prefered anyhow.
The problem highlighted in post 1, and 8 of the problems discussed in post 3, have not been problems with 1st line new records. RCA, Colombia, DG, Telefunken, Capitol classics, Angel.
I solved electrical interference from the Navy submarine communication system by changing cartridges away from the 1961 Audio Dynamics that came with my AR turntable to a Grado FTE. I solved the problem of footsteps thunking into the music by selling off the AR turntable and buying a BIC940.
I've had one LP of the 3500 I own be stamped off center. A Colombia masterwork.
Sibulence as noted in post 1 I solved by tracking at an appropriate force for the cartridge I use, Shure M97HE Era IV. 1.5 g.
I avoid creating damage to the fragile grooves by replacing the ceramic cartridge 5g tracking force of my Mother's RCA stereo, with 1.5 g MM cartridges on the AR turntable. Only the Grade FTE blew a chuck of the diamond and did some damage, the other two Audio Dynamics & Shure, have treated the grooves well. I never scratch or gouge the record with my hand. Your results may vary.
2nd or 3rd line record companies like pickwick, various New Jersey & Hollywood back binners, use **** for vinyl. Pay $2.98 for an album, get what you paid for. Never received an incompletely stamped LP.
Stereo results of 25 db is fine, as BBC says. I switch some of the early Capitol "voices on the left instruments on the right" or other dingbat versions of "stereo" to mono.
I am a lot more worried by CD master jobs that cut the dynamic range of CD's to 5 db.
"The sky is falling the sky is falling", chicken little should wear a concrete coffin vault to protect himself. I bought the quietest LP surface ever last year, Wicked Cool Records DollyRots. There is one record company out there that knows how to do a good job even in 2019.
I solved electrical interference from the Navy submarine communication system by changing cartridges away from the 1961 Audio Dynamics that came with my AR turntable to a Grado FTE. I solved the problem of footsteps thunking into the music by selling off the AR turntable and buying a BIC940.
I've had one LP of the 3500 I own be stamped off center. A Colombia masterwork.
Sibulence as noted in post 1 I solved by tracking at an appropriate force for the cartridge I use, Shure M97HE Era IV. 1.5 g.
I avoid creating damage to the fragile grooves by replacing the ceramic cartridge 5g tracking force of my Mother's RCA stereo, with 1.5 g MM cartridges on the AR turntable. Only the Grade FTE blew a chuck of the diamond and did some damage, the other two Audio Dynamics & Shure, have treated the grooves well. I never scratch or gouge the record with my hand. Your results may vary.
2nd or 3rd line record companies like pickwick, various New Jersey & Hollywood back binners, use **** for vinyl. Pay $2.98 for an album, get what you paid for. Never received an incompletely stamped LP.
Stereo results of 25 db is fine, as BBC says. I switch some of the early Capitol "voices on the left instruments on the right" or other dingbat versions of "stereo" to mono.
I am a lot more worried by CD master jobs that cut the dynamic range of CD's to 5 db.
"The sky is falling the sky is falling", chicken little should wear a concrete coffin vault to protect himself. I bought the quietest LP surface ever last year, Wicked Cool Records DollyRots. There is one record company out there that knows how to do a good job even in 2019.
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Does this account for all the LP's recorded with pre-distortion for conical playback? Quite a bit of literature on that.
This is a something to sell thread. The author seems like an accomplished person while the attitude of the first post is very off putting.
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