I hope this soundboard looks better, and of course sounds better! This has all the bracing on the back cut in solid from (2) matched 1/2" thick pieces of AAA Sitka Spruce. We shall see (hear)!
The Kentucky Headhunters were playing across the street last night at Strawberry Festival. They are a bit long in tooth, bless their hearts for still rocking live!
Their sound was VERY mid heavy, a few of Art's Keystone subs would have helped greatly.
The link below is a fun clip of some great jazz music, and is a good example of the standup Bass sound that I love. It's like back in the day it was the first surround sound system, so warm and encompassing but not over the top!
Their sound was VERY mid heavy, a few of Art's Keystone subs would have helped greatly.
The link below is a fun clip of some great jazz music, and is a good example of the standup Bass sound that I love. It's like back in the day it was the first surround sound system, so warm and encompassing but not over the top!
My Folded Horn Acoustic Guitar #2 soundboard was cut from Sitka Spruce for an archtop guitar. I need 18" wide minimum. Dreadnought are about 15-1/2", so that does not work for me. Plus I need the archtop thickness to cut the ribs in solid. I put another coat of polyurethane on it today, so getting closer.
Since I am cutting the ribs in solid, it is major hand work, and the top side gets a good beating, no matter how careful I try to be. Next time I might leave a good amount of stock on the top and run it through a sander for the new look. This one will have a "distressed" look. But with the Red Chestnut stain it looks like a well played violin color and texture!
Since I am cutting the ribs in solid, it is major hand work, and the top side gets a good beating, no matter how careful I try to be. Next time I might leave a good amount of stock on the top and run it through a sander for the new look. This one will have a "distressed" look. But with the Red Chestnut stain it looks like a well played violin color and texture!
I figured you used the CNC mill to pull those ribs out of the solid plank.
You know the next level is for the AI machine to listen to the top as it's being cut, auto-trim the ribs for the best sound, once placed in the guitar body. Secret process - nobody knows how it works. You're the only vendor in the world supplying acoustic guitar tops with integral ribs all from the same piece, tuned by your "virtual luthier" process while in production.
I decided I used all my CNC favors at work, the guys did me a great favor, I don't want to take advantage of it. Plus hand made soundboards are not difficult to do really, unless you cut all the bracing in solid, then it just takes lots of time, but fun!
Sounds like a good idea for a Patent. I did not see anything like this on Google Patents with just a quick search, write it up!
I did see this fairly new Patent for a way to support the soundboard, I like it! The guys are from PA, so they might be Martin guys.
I like this idea JJ! Plus "Virtual Luthier" could be a great brand. So this is a CNC machine that measures vibrations either while cutting or after cutting? The possibilities are endless. I have always thought bracing could be a great improvement. More power, possibly better tone. The standard guitar bracings today work very well, but man you can't tell there is no way to improve this. We shall see how my new soundboard bracing sounds, getting closer. Hoping the fuglies look better. 🤣
Sounds like a good idea for a Patent. I did not see anything like this on Google Patents with just a quick search, write it up!
I did see this fairly new Patent for a way to support the soundboard, I like it! The guys are from PA, so they might be Martin guys.
Joe,
The solid ribs perpendicular or 45 degrees to the strings will have very low stiffness to weight ratio compared to the standard practice of fastening ribs with their grain perpendicular to the soundboard. They will break with very little beating.
You will waste wood while reducing strength and resonance milling the ribs from the thick quarter sawn boards.
Art
I agree Art, that may happen. This is experimental, so if it fails I can just build a traditional soundboard with bracing. As shown below, I do have more thickness in the middle, and even more at the bridge. Plus the ribs are fanned out, so they go from parallel to diagonal, to perpendicular. Plus I have three pieces of Rosewood for additional support. The goal is to get a light yet strong soundboard that provides more vibration and power, but does not fail from approx. 200 lbs. of string force.
My current Baltic Birch soundboard works much better than myself and others expected. It does belly down toward the sound hole, but the bridge itself stays in the correct position, that is all that matters. An archtop has the bridge in correct position, then everything else blends away by design.
I believe having the bridge area supported well is critical for the soundboard strength, then slowly thin it down away from the bridge. Plus I know the screws can handle the force. If it fails I will say Art was right! If it does not fail and sounds good I will say who knew!?
Plus the large soundboard has somewhat of a bass drum quality when tapped. I think just maybe some of the lower frequencies I am measuring come from this soundboard resonance.
I am not sure how the sound can travel through the ribs, since they are cut in solid, maybe an advantage? Building something different is exciting to me, especially since I know it may fail, but also because I might find something new. Building a guitar exactly the way they have been built for over 100 years bores the **** out of me. I would rather just buy a guitar and play it, than build the same guitar everybody else builds. Stay tuned!
My current Baltic Birch soundboard works much better than myself and others expected. It does belly down toward the sound hole, but the bridge itself stays in the correct position, that is all that matters. An archtop has the bridge in correct position, then everything else blends away by design.
I believe having the bridge area supported well is critical for the soundboard strength, then slowly thin it down away from the bridge. Plus I know the screws can handle the force. If it fails I will say Art was right! If it does not fail and sounds good I will say who knew!?
Plus the large soundboard has somewhat of a bass drum quality when tapped. I think just maybe some of the lower frequencies I am measuring come from this soundboard resonance.
I am not sure how the sound can travel through the ribs, since they are cut in solid, maybe an advantage? Building something different is exciting to me, especially since I know it may fail, but also because I might find something new. Building a guitar exactly the way they have been built for over 100 years bores the **** out of me. I would rather just buy a guitar and play it, than build the same guitar everybody else builds. Stay tuned!
This is all well out of my wheelhouse. I suppose the test of time applies; I've got a Goya by Martin with a significant soundboard warp. I assume someone left it strung to pitch (200 lbs...) in a closet for 20 years or something and the wood flowed into the new position. That's what that did to however Goya does it bracewise under the top and it's basically unrepairable without sticking some ridiculous contraption in there, which I believe (has to) short circuits the top vibrations to the heel block.
So I wonder what would happen to your integrated braced top after sitting for 20 years at full string tension? We wont live to find out...
JJ - I wonder also, so far so good, but it has only been a few years. Since my soundboard is "light yet strong" as I always note, I think it has advantages compared to a standard soundboard, that I believe is "over braced"
This is my Guild, which I really like, about (15) years old. Same old story, bridge separates from soundboard. This happened recently. I noticed some tuning problems before it got this drastic, but once it is gone like this, unplayable. Sure it can be fixed, but I wonder: if the soundboard was not so over braced, would it move a bit more with the bridge, and still sound good, and not separate? Thoughts anybody?
https://katzenberger-engineering.com/
The hits just keep coming, maybe the link to my Website with YouTube video will tell a story, this I can track.
The hits just keep coming, maybe the link to my Website with YouTube video will tell a story, this I can track.
I have a Kala guitar that I really like also, but the bridge attach is gone as well. Challenging my wheelhouse to fix it. 3rd time it's off the soundboard, so a bit rough undersurface for the titebond / Elmers pro to adhere to. Needs a fill piece so thin that it's a challenge for me to cut a slice off on the table saw. Then what wood, what grain oeirntation? The only piece I have grain goes this way... I may practically never get around to it and of course the luthier wants more than the guitar is worth to fix it.
FWIW, I've been working on my dream performance system, trying to make it practical. Imagine a utility belt like Batman has. Two Sonicake Pocket Masters on either side of my butt, with a box between mixing their two stereo outs into two XLR mounted 640Mhz wireless, one for each channel. Using compression for both the Vocal and Guitar Sonicake, so the transmitters arent stressed at all accommodating wide dynamics. Two receivers go to a two channel amp and two speakers, maintaining any stereo effect the Sonicake devices can impart.
The system requires 6 batteries to be charged as maintenance; 7 if I power the amp from a battery. I'm charging one now.
I mentioned in another thread that if a musician hears themselves in a good way (SQ aspects of what their putting out), it will inspire them to perform better. I have personally experienced this with the sound I'm getting from this system. Something about me really likes what I'm hearing and what comes out of me performance wise is better in response to just the quality of the sound. Seems like worthwile to chase after.
I havent used it yet at the open mic. One impracticality is if you accidentally bump a button on the Sonicake, it could go to some "Blistering Metal Shootout" preset on the mic channel, in which case the only way out of accidental uncontrolled feedback is to unplug the mic. That cant happen on stage, obviously.
So I programmed the preset I'm using into 20 of 50 available slots and settle on the preset # with 10 identical presets on either side. Very improbable I'll accidentally hit a button 10 times, or twist the selecttion button that far thinking it's function is Volume when it's actually set to effect #; and it'll just go to the same duplicate preset. a few steps adjacent. We'll see how that goes.
I've noticed singing with a headset mic and playing fully cordless is quite agreeable. Oh, I had to put a transformer into a 1/4 TR plug to get the passive dynamic Shure headset mic's impedance to HiZ for the Sonicake input. Lucky to find a plug and transformer that would cram together that way. I need to make a spare -
The system requires 6 batteries to be charged as maintenance; 7 if I power the amp from a battery. I'm charging one now.
I mentioned in another thread that if a musician hears themselves in a good way (SQ aspects of what their putting out), it will inspire them to perform better. I have personally experienced this with the sound I'm getting from this system. Something about me really likes what I'm hearing and what comes out of me performance wise is better in response to just the quality of the sound. Seems like worthwile to chase after.
I havent used it yet at the open mic. One impracticality is if you accidentally bump a button on the Sonicake, it could go to some "Blistering Metal Shootout" preset on the mic channel, in which case the only way out of accidental uncontrolled feedback is to unplug the mic. That cant happen on stage, obviously.
So I programmed the preset I'm using into 20 of 50 available slots and settle on the preset # with 10 identical presets on either side. Very improbable I'll accidentally hit a button 10 times, or twist the selecttion button that far thinking it's function is Volume when it's actually set to effect #; and it'll just go to the same duplicate preset. a few steps adjacent. We'll see how that goes.
I've noticed singing with a headset mic and playing fully cordless is quite agreeable. Oh, I had to put a transformer into a 1/4 TR plug to get the passive dynamic Shure headset mic's impedance to HiZ for the Sonicake input. Lucky to find a plug and transformer that would cram together that way. I need to make a spare -
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My Guild is made in China, so anybody's guess about how they glue and clamp the bridge, same with your Kala (they look pretty cheap online).
My materials alone cost about $1,500 for all the wood and electronics. I am thinking a $500 dollar guitar cuts many corners.
Personally I like to apply glue to both components, and let it soak into the grain a bit before it starts drying. Then clamp it for 24 hours.
My guess is cheap guitars have a robot/laborer that lays two lines of glue, then clamp it for an hour?
Maybe too obvious! Anyway I tried it out at a party for the original Friday night open mic host's 1st marriage anniversary. It....worked, but I need to tune it up to sound good through whatever I plug into. That may take a few iterations of use. I played with it some late last night and still needs adjusting. Things like the compressor settings and the very nice reverb mix and decay, which was so wet-wrong I had to turn the effect off completely for my very first performance with it.
I bought the second set of wireless from the same vendor and as fate would have it; the receiver in the new set has a bad battery. Self discharges overnight, doesnt hold like the batteries in the other 3 bits. I'm working with the vendor hopefully to get this fixed, but just that little inconvenience could put the "belt 'n wireless" project on hold for another two weeks to sort that out, what with shipping back and forth and all. Disappointing...
So much time from concept to realization, isnt it? I wanted to play at the guy's wedding last year, but was sick and couldnt do it. His wife told me yesterday I've improved; so a year to "let the clutch out" and start rolling. Played "Tangled up in Blue" for my poor neighbors tryin to get some sleep on a Saturday night. I should have done that one at the party; "me, I'm still on the road, headed for another joint". Maybe not ;')
I tried to do some romantic stuff for them; LedZep's "Thank-You", Carpenter's "We've Only Just Begun", Bob Welch's "Sentimental Lady". Wanted to play "We've Only Just Begun" for them a year ago and it still needs practice and work to reliably move my slow, slow fingers into an F#maj.
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Linda Ronstadt has always been one of my favorite singers, she sings her heart out on this song, as usual. I just ran across this old YT video and love it!
I remember when it came out, I think it was 1974. I was 12 years old and just starting to get into music, and was on vacation with my family, and heard this song on the street, from a rooftop bar in the afternoon.
I could not believe it, at the time I thought it was the greatest song I ever heard, and LIVE music! It was thrilling, never forgot it!
Three guitars and three mics, bless their hearts. Plus the vocal harmonies are great, too bad the bass is so loud.
A fellow player does "Silver Threads" pretty regularly now. I like this one; it's actually doable if I can improve my chord changin' skills - C Em Am G as they sing the word "mind".
1965 baby; I was 8.
1965 baby; I was 8.