Again, this is a genuine attempt in discussing the design of these speakers. Its not considered lounge material for me. This is a multi way speaker and I wanted to understand what rhe design intent is considering the extremely high price tag. I figured maybe someone had some technical insight as to the designer's objective.
Wilson Audio has been known for exotic cabinet material which tends to be a lot
or part of the high price. And tends to use higher priced drivers.
Far as crossover design. Few designs have been tested.
Usually pretty poor.
often 4 ohm dual woofers with 1.6 to 2 ohm dips
No magical 1" domes, they are crossed to high with too much center to center spacing.
Assuming the price you get good off axis. As with most your assumptions, yes it is not possibly to get the performance you would
expect. You can already see in first post at 10 degrees the tweet is too high cross over and starting to dip in response.
Not a drama post, was curious myself and there is measurements and crossover rework done by " other" debatable gurus.
But at least the off axis and factory impedance measurements were shown.
The expensive cabinets are done well with little resonance, but the driver implementation/spacing/crossover fails.
As far as what you assume should happen as opposed to what actually happens.
or part of the high price. And tends to use higher priced drivers.
Far as crossover design. Few designs have been tested.
Usually pretty poor.
often 4 ohm dual woofers with 1.6 to 2 ohm dips
No magical 1" domes, they are crossed to high with too much center to center spacing.
Assuming the price you get good off axis. As with most your assumptions, yes it is not possibly to get the performance you would
expect. You can already see in first post at 10 degrees the tweet is too high cross over and starting to dip in response.
Not a drama post, was curious myself and there is measurements and crossover rework done by " other" debatable gurus.
But at least the off axis and factory impedance measurements were shown.
The expensive cabinets are done well with little resonance, but the driver implementation/spacing/crossover fails.
As far as what you assume should happen as opposed to what actually happens.
this is from Klang und Ton DIY Audio magazine
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/amton.htm
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/amton_messungen.htm
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/amton.htm
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/amton_messungen.htm
Attachments
Might not be relevant to your wish list for a tweeter, but this apparently was his:
Excerpt from "First Sounds: Wilson Audio Alexandria XLF" article by Marc Mickelson. Used under the principles of fair use for educational discussion. Full article available at:
https://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/wilson_audio_alexandria_xlf.htm
"What Dave Wilson was seeking from the tweeters spread out on his countertop was a driver that improved upon the Focal tweeter in two areas: dynamic contrast and harmonic expression. Neither of these things would be easily recognizable from the spec sheets of the tweeters; they are matters of quality, not quantity. While Meticulous Dave knew each tweeter's measured response and sensitivity, Discerning Dave needed to hear each driver to determine if it had potential. Then Wilson Audio would redesign and remanufacture the driver to tease the potential out of it.
Of the five tweeters, three had beryllium domes, one had a diamond dome and one a ceramic dome. Each had certain characteristics that Dave Wilson sought, but each also had issues that made it less than promising. Among these were low sensitivity (which reduced dynamic contrast); limited frequency response at the bottom end of its range, which affected its ability to transition to Wilson Audio's 6 1/2" midrange driver; a character to its sound that disqualified it; or some seemingly non-audio consideration, such as suspect reliability or materials that raised question of their future viability.
It is ironic, then, that the two-year quest for a new tweeter would come back to a technology Wilson Audio had used decades earlier. The Alexandria XLF uses a silk-dome tweeter designed by Wilson Audio and partially manufactured by Scan-Speak. "Partially" means that Scan-Speak manufactures the dome, magnet, and flange to Wilson Audio's specs, while Wilson Audio manufactures all of the rear elements of the driver."
Last edited:
Hi there,
is this the design you want to talk about?
https://www.wilsonaudio.com/products/alexandria/alexandria-xlf
So far - so good, Stefano
If this is the subject we should leave out design questions - please - i think it's awful ...
is this the design you want to talk about?
https://www.wilsonaudio.com/products/alexandria/alexandria-xlf
So far - so good, Stefano
If this is the subject we should leave out design questions - please - i think it's awful ...
Last edited:
A lot of missed opportunities to reduce high frequency diffraction. With separate enclosures for each driver, why not make an attempt to mitigate the sharp baffle edge next to each driver? None of the enclosures have a simple 6-sided box shape, so money is already being spent on a complicated shape, why not make it a shape which actually makes a positive acoustic impact?
I know you are a serious contributor. I find that discussions on Wilson’s are generally short on hard info because the company is so secretive and few technically strong DIYers own them. Crossover details are unobtainium because they are cast in epoxy, drivers tend to be custom units and the exact enclosure construction details also seem to be unknown. The stereophile measurements are the only ones I am aware of. The reviews in named publications I have read only compare the speaker in question with other Wilson models, not with competitors. So all you are left with is their marketing blurb and personal opinions on forums.
I believe they made their reputation because founder Dave Wilson effectively created the high end audiophile speaker genre. His invention must have competed with studio monitors like the JBL 43xx and TAD 240x at the time so not sure what he had that they didn’t, other than maybe a better/smaller form factor?
Man, my issue with this speaker is definitely not going to start at using the tweeter too low, but the suck out in the frequency response. To add to this, B&W does the opposite. Their high end diamond dome tweeters are kind of crap so they end up using the mids far above where they should be used to avoid having to fully compensate the frequency response of the tweeter and they are still commanding exorbitant prices.
I should have looked up Wilson’s first speakers before writing this. They were huge, a bit like the chronosonic ones of today. But they were living room speakers, not studio monitors.
I’m quite convinced Wilson designs speakers which have shapes that fatally attract the masculine homo ludens. There is hardly any acoustical rationale in these shapes and concepts. That has to say enough about the technical quality of the rest of the design.
I had the opportunity to listen to the Wilson Sophia and the Sonus Faber Amati hommage (one of the most beautifilly crafted speakers ever) quite some time ago. Both sounded lovely from a subjective POV - especially with female voices - but I had the feeling that my own speakers sound much more accurate or real-life or whatever one would call it.
But I can easily imagine that a lot of peaople would like their sound. I guess the Alexandria (which is still one of Wilson's least ugly models) would have the same sound signature but with more headroom.
Regards
Charles
But I can easily imagine that a lot of peaople would like their sound. I guess the Alexandria (which is still one of Wilson's least ugly models) would have the same sound signature but with more headroom.
Regards
Charles
This speaker has been discussed a lot in the past, and the conclusions were that this is not a high end speaker in sound quality, but a high end speaker in expensive materials and visual design, and it's sold for that to customers who care more about that. the build quality is good, the components high quality but the technical design and execution has a lot of faults in it.
I actually heared that speaker more than once, it was owned by a rich friend who replaced it with JBL M2's because he did not like the sound. And those (still expensive, but a lot cheaper than Alexandria's) JBL's are neutral in sound, and are loved by him. They measure good, and in the right (big) space they do sound very good, even with the standard (rather noisy) crown amp that JBL recommends with it. The owner uses custom build Purifi amps and a MiniDSP flex with it in stead that are a lot more neutral in sound than the Crown. But even with the Crown, the JBL is a milion times better than the Alexandria that was amped by Bryston amps.
Price does not always (very often not) equal quality, so don't be fooled by that.
I actually heared that speaker more than once, it was owned by a rich friend who replaced it with JBL M2's because he did not like the sound. And those (still expensive, but a lot cheaper than Alexandria's) JBL's are neutral in sound, and are loved by him. They measure good, and in the right (big) space they do sound very good, even with the standard (rather noisy) crown amp that JBL recommends with it. The owner uses custom build Purifi amps and a MiniDSP flex with it in stead that are a lot more neutral in sound than the Crown. But even with the Crown, the JBL is a milion times better than the Alexandria that was amped by Bryston amps.
Price does not always (very often not) equal quality, so don't be fooled by that.
I notice they can be adjusted for delay and pointed at the listener. I've also heard that each box uses different materials to manage resonances and to keep them separate.
They use some sort of absorption material across the baffle and the edges are beveled.
So most the mystical magical diffraction issues people imagine just are not there.
Most the issue is typical MTM problems and huge center to center mounting problems.
The materials used for the cabinets dont ring and are done well
As mentioned off axis they are full of the expected dips, and only so much can be done with the center to center spacing.
Remove one midrange and tighten the center to center spacing
otherwise same old skinny baffle with bevels that everyone expects and does anyways.
The impedance curves roller coaster, people seem to be " ok" with horrible crossover peaks.
So the only concern for most is the 1 or 2 ohm dips in the woofer sections.
They want power it is a difficult load and distortion would ramp up with any amp regardless with 1 or 2 ohm dips.
So most the mystical magical diffraction issues people imagine just are not there.
Most the issue is typical MTM problems and huge center to center mounting problems.
The materials used for the cabinets dont ring and are done well
As mentioned off axis they are full of the expected dips, and only so much can be done with the center to center spacing.
Remove one midrange and tighten the center to center spacing
otherwise same old skinny baffle with bevels that everyone expects and does anyways.
The impedance curves roller coaster, people seem to be " ok" with horrible crossover peaks.
So the only concern for most is the 1 or 2 ohm dips in the woofer sections.
They want power it is a difficult load and distortion would ramp up with any amp regardless with 1 or 2 ohm dips.
Well, a lot of us have seen the response of such almost square baffles, which in essence is the case here (although the adjacent baffles of course have their effects). Well, the tweeter is a bit rectangular. With a bit of useless foam.
Besides, 'pointing each box to the listener', this is not a PA array, why would anyone bother... And even if, there are enough examples of better ways (Focal?). I don't want to be overly critical, but it's a lot of gimmicks and voodoo to me, these man cave toys. I would like to see a detailed measurement Klippel style.
Isn't full range bass more important for perceived loudness?
A top of line Scanspeak will play >2k LR4 at 100db all day probably.
A top of line Scanspeak will play >2k LR4 at 100db all day probably.
its so easy. Wealth in a democracy should be spread as evenly as possible.
All thinkers of democracy assume a leveled middle-class society as a precondition for a functioning society.
https://www.stereophile.com/interviews/richard_sequerra_tuning_in/index.html
All thinkers of democracy assume a leveled middle-class society as a precondition for a functioning society.
https://www.stereophile.com/interviews/richard_sequerra_tuning_in/index.html
Instead of critiquing listen to them for a while,
Too much bass is easier to fix than not enough.
Nota that the speakers are not even half the sound, the room is the most important. Wilson made a bet that customers have relatively large rooms to place the tower speakers but the room have more aestetics than sound treatments, so at these higher bass capacity, they dimm the tweeter, note that on most customer audio the bass would be lower.
For ultimate speakers i would look into big woofers 13 inches plus
Too much bass is easier to fix than not enough.
Nota that the speakers are not even half the sound, the room is the most important. Wilson made a bet that customers have relatively large rooms to place the tower speakers but the room have more aestetics than sound treatments, so at these higher bass capacity, they dimm the tweeter, note that on most customer audio the bass would be lower.
For ultimate speakers i would look into big woofers 13 inches plus