Insults? Wiggins did some good work for Sonos, but they make shlock, Genelec does some serious work but driven by ts specific market. Harman have a range from crap to superb, again heavily driven by the markets it serves. each has its own experiences and expertise.
I have my own experience and knowledge, deep in places, shallow in others. Hifi is such a large space of budgets/needs/taste. Despite
Tweeter adds the compromise of an XO and a physically displaced tweeter. Plus if you are adding it to a FR, the cost of the tweeter & XO.
Many people are happy with their FRs, across all levels of listening experiece & training.You’ll justb have to love with that fact.
dave
Appreciate an explanation why a good fullrange driver cannot be DSP optimized, and more easily than multi-way and coaxial (of the same size-class), for coherent very high fidelity music and transcient response. I don't have DSP (other than smartphone) and am genuinely interested (and have read relevant FIR threads).
Narrow dispersion is a limitation for both fullrange drivers and tweeters at high frequency (wave not much larger than transducer become directional). Fidelity is fundamentally limited by bandwidth -- at the ears. (I've done the KEF LS50 Meta and the holographic coherence zone was still very narrow despite cone-waveguide-distortion-effects.)
OP might consult this long "working" thread on coaxial ragged response, which I hogged 10% (27/269 msgs).
And
Uh huh, whatever you say mr, forum person who can never provide data to back up their claims.
And that market is people who care about accurate audio reproduction.
I have heard this a lot in DIY audio, and it's probably the most empty statement one could make about a speaker.
You missed my point entirely. My point was that OP, and really everyone here should stop taking anecdotes as evidence of anything other than "This person likes this". OP asked a question that is largely technical in nature, and I provided him with an accurate comparison between two types of speakers and backed up the comparisons with data. Your arguments fall entirely down to subjective anecdotes which really are not helpful in the slightest. How is the OP or anyone else supposed to verify your experiences?
Yeah that's just not really a problem though. The compromises are full range makes are worse than the ones a multi way creates. If it were the other way around, full range drivers would actually exist outside of ripping off hobbyists and diy forums. It's just not a great way to reproduce audio in various ways.
The days of speaker guru's and such are over. If one cannot provide objective information to go along with their subjective impressions, the info shared is meaningless. You're at home here though because a lot of users just eat up much of the crap that is spewed. I've said about all I need to here, I'll leave you all to it.
A whole genre there. Often driver my the FR measurement. No one has really defined accurate so we are now into, “how is the data interpreted” particularily with important data MIA.
dave
Seemingly flat amplitude FR chart for a multi-way, but without phase/step/impulse response information, is misleading at best.
I actually have some Lowthers but not front-horn. My PM6A 15ohm Al-coil rolled-whizzer after necessary-double-notch in 17L TLonken sounded relaxing and quite dry (in a high-fidelity way). My PM2A ticonal in Fidelio back-horn sounded excellent but not as resolving/dynamic as my better diys.
I actually have some Lowthers but not front-horn. My PM6A 15ohm Al-coil rolled-whizzer after necessary-double-notch in 17L TLonken sounded relaxing and quite dry (in a high-fidelity way). My PM2A ticonal in Fidelio back-horn sounded excellent but not as resolving/dynamic as my better diys.
p.s. I don't have large classic Tannoy for comparison with Lowther; Precision 8/woof (diy experiment) just so-so. OTOH Faital HF108 CD has wider VHF dispersion horn-or-not but some other issues (to be worked out).
"Too good to be true" tweeter / waveguide available or unobtainium? Thanks.
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Well, since the zero mention on the particular setup and expectations, besides a vague mention of horn and Lowthers,
I will stick to the best answer available when there's no information other than "what's the best?" and the following replies (relevant or not) that are thrown in the mix....
The answer is 42.
I will stick to the best answer available when there's no information other than "what's the best?" and the following replies (relevant or not) that are thrown in the mix....
The answer is 42.
There are no good fullranges - it is an oxymoron! 🙂
Cone brakeup, resonances and restricted high-frequency dispersion variable with frequency are characteristics of all fullranges, which can't be corrected with DSP.
1" waveguides are readily available, but 3/4" can be printed:
https://josephcrowe.com/products/1324-dome-tweeter-waveguide-3d-cad-file-sb-acoustics-sb19st-c000-4
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Hi, my setup is composed of a 2a3 amplifier and lowther TP1Isis with EX4. I really like its "brightness" and dynamics, but sometimes the high frequencies are annoying. for this reason I wondered how a coaxial of the same diameter would behave in this cabinet. I live not far from factory SICA and I saw that they produce coaxials of that diameter. I thank everyone because each of your answers increases my knowledge.
Because of the uniqueness of Lowther TP1 enclosure it is not easy to replace EX4 with coaxial. Front loading horn part is shaping Lowther driver frequency response complementary. Coaxials by themselves have (more or less) flat frequency response in that frequency range, so when placed in horn that range will be exaggerated. Not a big problem, but it requires accurate measurements and meticulous crossover simulation.
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Hi there,
i have made some testing with measurements and listening tests for FR and coax
for budget there is a 8 inch FR chassis around that is unbeatable, lot of threads here for this one
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/sb-acoustics-sb20frpc30-8.html
i tested a lot with the Sonido SFR200A, other price point
for the coax i was lucky to buy some pairs of KEF in France where they were sold for a while as spare parts without the need to show the serial number of the old ones that you need to replace
actively driven with plate amps unbeatable sound quality / price ratio
with a miniDSP 2 X 4 HD with the Dirac Live plugin and an old receiver as 4 channel power amplifier and a woofer / midrange - highrange KEF coax with a simple passive crossover for coax midrange to highrane CO you can get a very nice system for an unbeatable price far better as with a fullrange chassis in the same regoin of budget
here a thumbnal of the test construction of mine
but as always this is only my personal opinion, Stefano
P.S. as of now in the second quarter 2025 for the KEF coax you need to find a decent pair of used KEF speakers and use the chassis, but to find for a decent price you need to be lucky
i have made some testing with measurements and listening tests for FR and coax
for budget there is a 8 inch FR chassis around that is unbeatable, lot of threads here for this one
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/sb-acoustics-sb20frpc30-8.html
i tested a lot with the Sonido SFR200A, other price point
for the coax i was lucky to buy some pairs of KEF in France where they were sold for a while as spare parts without the need to show the serial number of the old ones that you need to replace
actively driven with plate amps unbeatable sound quality / price ratio
with a miniDSP 2 X 4 HD with the Dirac Live plugin and an old receiver as 4 channel power amplifier and a woofer / midrange - highrange KEF coax with a simple passive crossover for coax midrange to highrane CO you can get a very nice system for an unbeatable price far better as with a fullrange chassis in the same regoin of budget
here a thumbnal of the test construction of mine
but as always this is only my personal opinion, Stefano
P.S. as of now in the second quarter 2025 for the KEF coax you need to find a decent pair of used KEF speakers and use the chassis, but to find for a decent price you need to be lucky
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(edit: tweak using SS/Class D not tube amp please!)
You are welcome. Bottom link has my minimalist XO and notch filter design method. The front-horn mostly enhances midrange so PM6A double-notch should be a good starting point. Notch center frequency ~ 5khz/sqrt(mH*uF); to broaden/deepen use larger mH inductor & smaller uF capacitor etc. See Photo Gallery how I hook up and tweak XO in real-time.
(minimalist method and simplified formulae)
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Could you share some feedback on that driver? I'm eyeballing it as well, mostly for its high sensitivity (& Sonido's good reputation and pricing)
Hi there!
My best setup from the result of extensive listening tests with an older pair of Sonido SFR200A with the old basket (replaced some years ago with the standard 8 inch basket coming from 3rd party - presumeably chinese) was this here
with the front horn to reduce midrange distortion level and to tame the distinct double peak surrround resonance about 400 Hz ( Sonido use a completely undamped textil surround, with the heavy resonance but the Rms value is almost as high as the value of the legendary Siemens 6ruf lsp 22c 8 inch FR chassis) and a little bit of all over EQ at the listening position done with ROON via software the soundstage was amazing already at very low listening levels and the amount of coloration acceptable ( some people speaks from the characteristic Sonido sound )
hope it helps, Stefano
P.S.: the FR measurements shootout has been done 10 years ago from Bernd Timmermanns of the Hobby HiFi magatine 05 / 2015
My best setup from the result of extensive listening tests with an older pair of Sonido SFR200A with the old basket (replaced some years ago with the standard 8 inch basket coming from 3rd party - presumeably chinese) was this here
with the front horn to reduce midrange distortion level and to tame the distinct double peak surrround resonance about 400 Hz ( Sonido use a completely undamped textil surround, with the heavy resonance but the Rms value is almost as high as the value of the legendary Siemens 6ruf lsp 22c 8 inch FR chassis) and a little bit of all over EQ at the listening position done with ROON via software the soundstage was amazing already at very low listening levels and the amount of coloration acceptable ( some people speaks from the characteristic Sonido sound )
hope it helps, Stefano
P.S.: the FR measurements shootout has been done 10 years ago from Bernd Timmermanns of the Hobby HiFi magatine 05 / 2015
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