I really like the idea of 2 versions - a low cost and premium version. The "premium" version we are talking about is still significantly less than being discussed in the other thread. I'm open to a third version also. I think it would be cool if they can fit in the exact same cabinet. That gives users a clear upgrade path. However, I don't think they need to be "nearly interchangeable" from a crossover perspective. When we get to that part of the design stage, I'll share some ideas on having a very flexible/interchangeable system for 2 or 3 "versions".
If you have a 3D printer, the cost of filament for an AugerPro 5" waveguide is probably $2-$3. If we go with a waveguide option, and I can get my printer dialed in the way I plan, I'd be willing to offer them at cost + actual shipping (which I realize is only helpful to people in the U.S.).
I think there is a valid disagreement between people who want to stick to the concept of the classic monkey coffin (no waveguide = Waxx) and those that want improved directivity via a waveguide. I think when we get all three drivers settled, we can discuss having two versions - waveguide and no waveguide. It is more work, but no more so than some of the others things that we may choose to do.
The SLS is by far the cheapest option in the U.S. With it, we could have a VERY inexpensive classic 3-way. Of course, being the cheapest option means tradeoffs - we don't get to use the cheapest option and get all of the performance of the most expensive option (which I think is the SB34NRX). I'll post more tonight about box size ideas, but I think 60L is easily attainable. A sealed F3 less than 50Hz, for an very inexpensive classic 3-way is probably a reasonable tradeoff. [Note - I am thinking in terms of appeal to broad builders. I understand those who want better than this. The speakers I am building for my home listening room have dual RSS315HFA and have a sealed F3 of 35Hz. They are also 5 cf (142L)).
We should include him in the mix as a lowish size and cost, so sealed in spite of the 66L vented of the Tarkus.
Is there an agreement from interrested lurkers to launch a more advanced sim of 3 versions. We haven't much talked about a vented option staying in the price and load size targett ?
So 3 choices for now, all sealed :
SB34RNX75-6 : expensive low cost 55L load, F3:40 hz / F6= 32 Hz (my Vcad sim with low pass) , Qtc 0.8 /Eventually Peereless XXLS to sim at iso price ?
SLS12-08 : middle point low cost : 66 load, F3=50 Hz / F6 = 40 (Waxx sim) Qtc : 0.9
SLS10-08 : low cost, still good sound. load 57 L , F3= 45 Hz , F6=35 Hz (my Vcad sim with low pass), Qtc 0.707
Anybody for vented idea with the same cabinet size and price ?
If not, time to choose a midwoof for each of the woofer above according their simed spl, baffle step included; target arouind 200 to 300 Hz cut off acoustical.
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True story....
I would not hold stock in ANY Goldwood spec sheet.
Once, I bought a pair of Goldwood 6.5" Heavy Duty woofers. They didn't match in spec, and one was assembled with an off center dustcap that LEAKED.
I bought a 3rd to try and get a matching pair. The 3rd had a rubbing coil, and was even further off spec.
Story short- I fixed the leak in the dustcap on the wonky centered one, and mounted it so the cap was positioned high of center making it less noticeable.
Then I took the average of the 2 sets of T/S, and built a stuffed-ported box to get close to both best fit models. Being they were higher Q than spec, this is the best I could do.
They were used in my Schwarz XL project with an Airborne tweeter.
I would not hold stock in ANY Goldwood spec sheet.
Once, I bought a pair of Goldwood 6.5" Heavy Duty woofers. They didn't match in spec, and one was assembled with an off center dustcap that LEAKED.
I bought a 3rd to try and get a matching pair. The 3rd had a rubbing coil, and was even further off spec.
Story short- I fixed the leak in the dustcap on the wonky centered one, and mounted it so the cap was positioned high of center making it less noticeable.
Then I took the average of the 2 sets of T/S, and built a stuffed-ported box to get close to both best fit models. Being they were higher Q than spec, this is the best I could do.
They were used in my Schwarz XL project with an Airborne tweeter.
😉 It was more from me to illustrate a No-Go with : "sometimes too much cheap is too much expensive if you have to eat s...t"
All good!
I personally have only moderate interest in larger ported boxes but I'm sure others do.
For the cheapskates among us, and I include myself often, Madisound has deals on the Peerless 830657 6.5" SDS used in the Tarkus as well as the 830656 5.25" version. $18.50 & $14.50. A quick glance shows decent FR for both, the smaller driver reaching >2khz before dispersion starts narrowing, but the larger driver having at least 3 dB higher sensitivity. These drivers were quite popular for a while; perhaps for good reason.
I was myself hesitating for a personal project I have no time to finish for now, between the SB34RNXL sealed (needs a Linkwitz transform) and the SB34RNX75-6
Both cut off around 300 Hz acoustical ! It is trade off, but the non L should permitt to me less hassle but more distorsion. I am unable to choose for the moment. The L version has a F3 sealed a little too high theoricaly...
Both cut off around 300 Hz acoustical ! It is trade off, but the non L should permitt to me less hassle but more distorsion. I am unable to choose for the moment. The L version has a F3 sealed a little too high theoricaly...
For mid i want to recommend the Faital 6FE125-8 (45€/52$), a 6inch good to cross to about 2.5kHz and a normal easy to use round frame.
Those peerless mentioned above are good, but have a hard to work with frame if you want to flushmount it. And for a mid or a bassmid that is needed i think. Not so much for a sub (but it looks better when flush).
Those peerless mentioned above are good, but have a hard to work with frame if you want to flushmount it. And for a mid or a bassmid that is needed i think. Not so much for a sub (but it looks better when flush).
XXLS + ?
SB34RNX75-6 + NE149W-04 ? (non avialable in Europe)
SLS12-08 + SB15NBAC ?
SLS10 + 6FE125 ?
12FE330 vented + 6FE125 ?
??+ ??
Just an illustration from a pricing logic perspective, duno if good mariage in real.
to be continued, waiting members' ideas...
SB34RNX75-6 + NE149W-04 ? (non avialable in Europe)
SLS12-08 + SB15NBAC ?
SLS10 + 6FE125 ?
12FE330 vented + 6FE125 ?
??+ ??
Just an illustration from a pricing logic perspective, duno if good mariage in real.
to be continued, waiting members' ideas...
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log with an account, you will have the customer price that is always cheaper, look price for two units.
I think if @mikessi does something with the SB34NRX he mentioned he has the SB15NBAC (I could be remembering wrong)
If I do something with the SLS12 I would likely use the NE149W, SB15PFC or some other midrange (FaitalPro, etc.) yet to be determined.
I personally don't have an interest in a 10" woofer or 6" midrange, but others are free to prefer that and speak up.
Looking at some possibilities for midrange and tweeters (which I prefer to discuss after we decide on woofer(s)) I can see an inexpensive build with the SLS12 close to $300 a pair and a premium build around the SB35NRX for what looks likely to be $700 a pair (for example with SB15NBAC and SB26ADC).
I am still intrigued by the LaVoce SF122. I think I will model it tonight with the 3 different sets of TS parameters that exist and see if they all actually model basically the same. It would be nice to have a middle option around $500 a pair, which is feasible with the LaVoce. Or a FaitalPro or Beyma?
I'm confused by the Peerless comment. Just to be sure, is that the XXLS-830845.? Cost today is $190 at PE.
I figured 55L for the actual woofer air space. ( My sim showed a Q of .8 for the 830845 Peerless. ) The f3 is <42hz.
If bigger boxes are considered.....
55L.....f3<42.....f6<34
65L.....f3<40.....f6<32
75L.....f3<39.....f6<31
Ported does not look any better to me.
55L looks to be a reasonable choice. ( 120w yields 101dB at 30hz. Excursion is 10mm below 35hz ) That's 108dB above 70hz.
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The peerless FSL-0512R01-08 also looks quiet ok as mid, and is very cheap (12€). Someone has experience with that one?
People have to choose and show their interrest one day or another. Poll ? A target price and cabinet size has been chosen cause it was what poped up step by step with the few members here.
It has been seen several options could be feasible inside that thread. Choice 1 migth be close from the other thread perhaps (cost wise) ?
Seems clear enough to me till now, bu the choice of the size of bass unit. Most problem for the moment is if anyone has an interrest to construct it, as most of the participants of this thread give their thougths for the help and not being perhaps the ones whom build it?
Maybe a poll finally could be asked by @A4eaudio to see if any interrest ? Stop there or go further according the result or number of people ?
It has been seen several options could be feasible inside that thread. Choice 1 migth be close from the other thread perhaps (cost wise) ?
Seems clear enough to me till now, bu the choice of the size of bass unit. Most problem for the moment is if anyone has an interrest to construct it, as most of the participants of this thread give their thougths for the help and not being perhaps the ones whom build it?
Maybe a poll finally could be asked by @A4eaudio to see if any interrest ? Stop there or go further according the result or number of people ?
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I have SB34SWNRX-S75. Slightly different spec -- more of a sub. Probably not suitable for crossing over 300Hz. But with active DSP, a 4-500Hz crossover is doable, I'm sure.
Also don't have SB15NBAC. Do have NE149W.