The TL III has wider IF than the II, although some of the former were modified at the factory. Stereo model is wider again. This improves channel separation. Stereo also has more gain via a different RF valve, and the decoder driven by the cathode follower rather than straight out of the detector. Otherwise all three circuits are identical.
The OP’s question was about the fmmpx.com decoder I had recommended above, which does fit inside.
The OP’s question was about the fmmpx.com decoder I had recommended above, which does fit inside.
Any idea why they used the ECC84 valve in the RF stage initially when they could always have used the ECC88?
The ECC84 is a pain to get and very expensive whereas the ECC88 is all over the place - still in production too!
Yep, I meant fit inside the metal can the original decoder is placed for shielding purposes. The fmmpx decoder pcb looks larger than that, judging from the photo.
No idea about the ECC84. When they lowered the Q of the IF coils they needed more gain to compensate, hence the change. ECC84 was probably all over the place too in the late 1950s.
Yes, I meant instead of the entire old decoder, not inside its case. No shielding is required, as the new decoders have no coils.
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That's what I thought too: maybe the ECC84 was cheaper than the ECC88 back then and sold by the bucket load. But my understanding is that it was - and still is - intended as an audio valve primarily. Which begs the question how come it lies in the RF stage in the first place. Anyway, if one needs an ECC84 replacement today, esp. Mullard, good luck...
Aha! I did not think of that... I would leave it outside. Firstly because I don't think modern components are too happy with the heat coming off the tubes. Secondly, because I like the idea of being able to choose.
Quite annoyingly, the quoting icon does not appear on the latest thread reply. At least not on my browser (Edge). At first it would eventually appear after a couple of minutes but then it just stopped appearing. I got tired of waiting so I tried circumventing it. I wonder whether this is a known issue or it's only the case for me.
Happens to me occasionally that it appears but doesn’t work. Refresh fixes that.
ECC84 is a VHF valve. Designed for use as RF cascade, exactly as in the Troughline. Plenty of them about, cheap as chips.
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Oh I had both Yamahas, AT-93 and others. All history, FM is practically unusable today. In the attempt to push DAB+ the FM transmitting power has been limited. So I said goodbye to both and that was it.
I resorted to copying the link from the last working quotes icon and editing the response number by hand.
It is always the case for me: the last message never shows the quoting icon.
I stand corrected. Both Brimar and Philips datasheets specifically mention it is intended for use in RF tuners (up to 220MHz) in a cascode circuit.
I could've sworn I read somewhere it was intended for audio use. How the mind plays tricks...
Ebay prices for NOS items start at £4 with £8-9 for a Mullard. Not sure what counts a cheap today but it has to be a Mullard in a Troughline, otherwise what's the point? I guess £8 for a receiver valve is not much nowadays. Back when I bought my spare (a couple of decades back) I certainly felt stung paying this much but I cannot put too much faith on what I remember from back then, evidently. ECC85 also specified as RF.
Why? Several countries still have FM, e.g. USA. There is hope (I hope). You'll never catch me willingly listening to DAB or, heaven forbid, owning such a tuner (even, worse, one of these internet radio gadgets). I have nothing against software-defined radio though, as long as that remains in the hobbyist realm or never replaces mainstream FM. I think there is always space and scope for FM and AM (shortwave and so on). I suppose if you're going to listen to junk on radio, you might as well relegate it to DAB and leave FM for a handful of quality stations broadcasting music. Then again, I am an unapologetic archaeophile.
Which country is that in? Germany? I thought there were many FM listeners there still (judging from the low number of tuners sold on ebay.de).
Both in Germany and the Netherlands both FM and DAB+ do not appeal that much (anymore). Aether broadcast for home use seems to have had its time, that is probably why many sold their tuners. When I hear radio at people it comes as a surprise.
With the risk FM tuners will be excellent door stoppers one better sells them while the FM transmitters still work 🙂
I don’t miss it.
With the risk FM tuners will be excellent door stoppers one better sells them while the FM transmitters still work 🙂
I don’t miss it.
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It will come around. Record players did, then reel-to-reel decks did and then even cassette decks and cds did!
Admittedly, it will be harder for radio to come back when there are no transmitters around...
What, radio? I suppose that is a sign of the times.
We used to have radio on for hours. Now people just sit in front of a screen because they want an image to go along with the talking or the music. Or they simply listen to streaming channels. Until another novelty appears and then there will be some that will lament for the death of youtube...
It is not just the medium, it is also the content which is determined by others. In this day and age people want to choose their stuff. That is why streaming services exist. Everyone chooses stuff of their own liking. DAB was bad, DAB+ better but it is same same but different regarding its possibilities and it is not as good as FM used to be when driving. Since reducing the FM transmitting power both FM and DAB+ coverage is not as one would like.
Let alone the dreadful advertising and commercials on linear TV and radio. In Germany it is mainly talking, pushing political and policor stuff etc. Dead media. When it was announced FM would be switched off (that was retracted later on) I got rid of my tuners and never looked back. And boy, did I enjoy radio in my youth! New music, John Peel, almost exclusively quality public broadcast…..no internet…
Let alone the dreadful advertising and commercials on linear TV and radio. In Germany it is mainly talking, pushing political and policor stuff etc. Dead media. When it was announced FM would be switched off (that was retracted later on) I got rid of my tuners and never looked back. And boy, did I enjoy radio in my youth! New music, John Peel, almost exclusively quality public broadcast…..no internet…
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Why? I’ve seen many posts asserting that this or that RF or IF valve ‘sounds better,’ but the fact is that, gain and therefore noise apart, the whole nature of FM is such that it cannot possibly bake any difference at all.
They will eventually get tired of having to choose all the time and will go back to having someone do the choosing for them - plus there is the live material as well as the feeling that you're somehow participating in something or at least sharing something with many others. Streaming does not offer that: it's a solitary experience.
Not all stations are infested with advertising. Of course this changes from one country, region and station to another.
Beck then it was a different era, different people. Quality is not the same nowadays: it's more about quantity and high-tech. No people of the same stature exist as back then. There is very little originality but plenty of novelty - worse: plenty of copying and regurgitating. But one still does get the odd live concert now and again. In Greece, it's mostly recorded shows being replayed that are worth listening to. But there are some good new stuff too.
Youth of today hardly watch television nor do they listen to the radio and they are the future. They can not imagine to see or hear what others have decided upon. See the success of Netflix, TikTok etc. All individual media, nothing in common with other people whether one likes that or not. Series over movies is also such a development.
Oh quality broadcasts for older people may occur once in a while (looking up the program magazine 😉) but for me it did not justify the possession of a tuner. Besides that there are practically no repair shops anymore to have them fixed/aligned.
Dependency on the transmitters so one way is the determining factor. Besides the content their existence is even determined by others.
Oh quality broadcasts for older people may occur once in a while (looking up the program magazine 😉) but for me it did not justify the possession of a tuner. Besides that there are practically no repair shops anymore to have them fixed/aligned.
Dependency on the transmitters so one way is the determining factor. Besides the content their existence is even determined by others.
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This is getting quite dire. Forget finding one to have a tuner aligned: finding one to fix an audio amplifier might soon be a challenge.
Please do not forget that Mullard, Blackburn, was just a factory under the Philips roof. I don't believe that any of these manufacturers made any tube type, but just labelled them accordingly. So a ECC 84 e. g. might as well have been made at Heerlen, Hamburg or Chartres, just to name a few. Anyway, it's easily discernible by the etch code next to the socket.
Best regards!