I got caught up in the WaW 'mode' myself, and ended up getting a pair of huge, 12" Lavoces. But now, after moving, the monkey coffins I built for them just seem too big. What they each really need is a dark square grille with some kind of embossed outline of 3 (much smaller) circles, so they look like 3-ways.
My only gripe with the Lavoces is that almost all of them seem to have those huge dust caps, and I swear they are audible.
Based on my experience 8"-12"FR is a perfect small room speaker (100 sqft) Fs at 80hz and 93+ dB and you can rock. In big enough enclosure in the corner it should go down to 50hz without any boom. It's lightning fast and the sound has proper size and scale . And if the driver has those special tonal aberrations you can enjoy them in full.
any amp you want from mini to maxi will do
any amp you want from mini to maxi will do
Would appreciate a "solution" i.e. mathematical curve for 1st-order low-pass filter in the presence of typical rising impedance with frequency. This is not a hypothetical problem; I hear it and deal with it by iteration until consistent.
A simplified math example: 1mH inductor, driver 8ohm at 1280hz and 16ohm at 2560hz, then the formula for -3dB frequency ~ imp*160hz/1mH holds true at both points.
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I think we are on the same page.
Adding a simple inductor to a woofer (run along side a full range driver) can work, but doesn't perfectly work (and that's fine too).
Given the above example, the 8ohm driver and 1mh ideally would be -3db @ 1,250 and -9db @ 2,500.....
However, without copper cap or some inductance shorting device, in the real world, a woofer may be 8ohms @ 1khz but then could be 20 ohms @ 2khz due to the impedance rising (resistance @ frequency).
While the 1mh + woofer would be -3db @ 1,250, it may be only -5db @ 2,500hz instead of the desired -9db @ 2,500hz.
Adding a simple inductor to a woofer (run along side a full range driver) can work, but doesn't perfectly work (and that's fine too).
Given the above example, the 8ohm driver and 1mh ideally would be -3db @ 1,250 and -9db @ 2,500.....
However, without copper cap or some inductance shorting device, in the real world, a woofer may be 8ohms @ 1khz but then could be 20 ohms @ 2khz due to the impedance rising (resistance @ frequency).
While the 1mh + woofer would be -3db @ 1,250, it may be only -5db @ 2,500hz instead of the desired -9db @ 2,500hz.
How about a multi-tapped inductor with a resistor ladder? I tried that in simulation with 4x 1mH segments, and resistor values chosen empirically to "flatten the curve". Semi-inductance might be what you are looking for.
Or perhaps very thin windings with a high DCR and oil cooled?
Insert a reactance annulled Zobel for the HF impedance rise & the inductor will behave consistently. Problem solved. 😉
Wow variations on resistance.... Guess I can also bypass driver with small C (planet10 way) far enough away from L to act as cascading 1st-orders....
When I build my little treble assisted FR box, I did not realize it, but the result was pleasing. As I use a magnetostatic tweeter with the property of constant impedance -like a resistor, coupled with a capacitor and parallel connection, the tweeter act as some sort of divider, a.k.a. the rising impedance of the FR is compensated in the treble by the magnetostat. I do not exactly know the theory behind it, but it works out fine. No harsh FR sound in the higher treble range. But I need to measure to understand what happens, of course. Just to share one experience. With dome tweeters this probably does not work like this.
Or use two poweramplifiers, one with a highpass filter and the other with a lowpass inline RCA filter before each amplifier. And do the crossover somewhere below the transition frequency ?
Still only 6 dB/oct crossover but more exact.
Using a wide baffle about 40 cm , the crossover at bafflestep frequency ( 11600/40=290 Hz.)
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There’s also line array to be considered in the full range arena. I’ve had great results using Dayton audio ND90 and ND92 full range 3.25” drivers. 25drivers a side perfectly fits a 8x4’ wood and has the combined surface area of a 16” subwoofer. I use a substantial amount of corrective eq though.
I've recently made two full range speakers, one is a WAW, a 3 inch paper cone working down to around 200 Hz, and the bass done by a 6 1/2 inch cheap PA driver, the other is a woven glass fibre 6 1/2 inch, with a fill in rear facing tweeter, I have to say that I much prefer the crisp sound of the 3 inch.
Even though I'm not a fan of ported speakers (perhaps a groundless prejudice), I've often wondered what a small full range in a two chamber bass reflex would sound like.
Even though I'm not a fan of ported speakers (perhaps a groundless prejudice), I've often wondered what a small full range in a two chamber bass reflex would sound like.
Any small fullrange, any, will have significant rise in distortion below 200Hz. Please see data.
Adding substantial amount of corrective eq will only exacerbate the problem.
Sound of proper 15" woofer will be significantly cleaner that 25 tiny chihuahuas.
Timothy Feleppa's pages have lots of useful info, besides the fr plots, on and off axis, there are distortion measurements.
Most small full range drivers approach 10% distortion at low frequencies.
https://feleppa.com.au/speakermeasmid.html
Most small full range drivers approach 10% distortion at low frequencies.
https://feleppa.com.au/speakermeasmid.html
Any driver will have significant distortion if you turn it up far enough. To which data are you referring?
You should not consider a 2" por 3" for bass, that is true. But a 6 or 8" can do bass, some fullrange drivers (like the bigger Mark Audio models) do a better bass than a lot of midwoofers of the same size. With lower distortion and a lower fs.
And i said it before and i will say it again, fullrange drivers in a single driver config are nearfield to extreme nearfield speakers, for low to medium volume in a small space. If you need a lot of volume or a deep bass, you need to go multiway to do it neutral low distortion, or take the distortion. Even with big fullrange drivers. But for a very nearfield, a single fullrange driver is often better than a multiway because of the single point source sound. And with bass support they can be used in a bit larger spaces at higher volume and go to subwoofer frequencies in relative low distortion.
And i said it before and i will say it again, fullrange drivers in a single driver config are nearfield to extreme nearfield speakers, for low to medium volume in a small space. If you need a lot of volume or a deep bass, you need to go multiway to do it neutral low distortion, or take the distortion. Even with big fullrange drivers. But for a very nearfield, a single fullrange driver is often better than a multiway because of the single point source sound. And with bass support they can be used in a bit larger spaces at higher volume and go to subwoofer frequencies in relative low distortion.
How about you read next post?
For a moderator you have rather weird comments.
Every speaker will distort near its limit. What an observation...wow, you must be smart one.
Just in case you did not get it, this thread is about realities of full range drivers.
I am repeating it here again.
Any small full range driver, like the nd90 dayton, and other 3-4" fullranges, will distort significantly more below 200Hz when compared with proper woofer. Same conditions. Not pushed beyond limits. Even in their linear range.
Such is the reality of small full range drivers.
In the interest of fairness, you can essentially say the same thing about any highly compact drive unit in the LF if you compare it to an equally well-designed larger unit. It doesn't matter what handle you use for it (full-range, wideband, midbass, 'compact sub-woofer'[!] ) -that's just raw dimensions / volume displacement at work & not exactly knews since Rice & Kellogg invented the things at G.E. in the 1920s. It's not until you start getting to slightly larger sizes that things can (can) start to level out depending on design details and what criteria are being used.
This is why I'm not a fan of open baffle and significant levels of DSP.