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Yes, before my Toyota I had a Mitsubishi sedan > the last model to use a timing chain > I SWARE THAT CAR WAS CURSED > nothing but trouble 🙁
I have a first gen 2001 Honda Insight with 300,000 miles on the original engine and no indications of deterioration. I also had an early Honda Civic that went 100,000 miles on even the original tires. Both Japan built cars so I don't know that its an indicator for current models or those built in the US. Still positive indicators. The Insight has a lifetime MPG of 49.5 MPG making it one of the most cost effective cars to own.
Again, this can't really be answered unless you know which models with which engines you are comparing. This is especially the case now where the modern car industry shares platforms, drivetrains and engines.
The best I can offer is that Toyotas are reasonable to work on and do not tend to engineer-in annoyances that hinder servicing, such as oil filters in stupid places. The latest model I have worked on is a 2019 Hilux, however. But does this apply to a Yaris with a tiny engine compartment? I don't know.
Note that after some time of ownership we have found modern diesels are not worth buying for general transportation. The cost of servicing is quite a bit higher than a petrol car, what with regular fuel filter changes, DPF systems causing issues if not given long runs, the necessity for urea additives and the like. However, this is based on diesel fuel selling for similar prices to petrol, as in Australia. If it is much cheaper then that has to be taken into account.
My son had to add a finer micron rated pre-filter to his Prado to ensure reliability when crossing the Nullarbor in case he got a bad batch of fuel (due to this high pressure diesel system). The standard Toyota filter isn't very fine. This wouldn't be necessary on the V6 petrol if it was used for that trip, but it would use a lot more fuel.
I can't comment on Hyundai as our family has only owned them before they lifted their quality. In the 1990's they were junk whose engines wore out in literally 100,000km. I think they've sorted out their quality now, but I guess this is nothing to do with your question...
As an aside, I wouldn't mind owning an i30N! https://www.hyundai-n.com/en/models/n/i30-n.do
I hope that helps a bit with your decision.
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Hi Mister Audio,
In my experience, belts can break. When they do they trash the valve train and possibly damage pistons. You do not want to miss this replacement interval! In contrast, any timing chain engine I have ever experienced didn't break the chain (with the same results if it did). I had some friends with Fords that lost the teeth on the gears (fibre) and a couple ended up with severe engine damage as a result. The others just needed valves and a top end rebuild. The camshaft(s) and cranks absolutely must remain in sync with each other at all costs.
So, given a choice, I'll opt for a timing chain every single time.
For high compression and horsepower we used something called a "roller chain", which was like a double chain. Really strong. You don't want to write-off a racing engine! Mine was $4K back in 1978. Any suggestion of using a timing belt in those circles would mark you forever.
In my experience, belts can break. When they do they trash the valve train and possibly damage pistons. You do not want to miss this replacement interval! In contrast, any timing chain engine I have ever experienced didn't break the chain (with the same results if it did). I had some friends with Fords that lost the teeth on the gears (fibre) and a couple ended up with severe engine damage as a result. The others just needed valves and a top end rebuild. The camshaft(s) and cranks absolutely must remain in sync with each other at all costs.
So, given a choice, I'll opt for a timing chain every single time.
For high compression and horsepower we used something called a "roller chain", which was like a double chain. Really strong. You don't want to write-off a racing engine! Mine was $4K back in 1978. Any suggestion of using a timing belt in those circles would mark you forever.
Timing chains are roller chain, like bicycle chain.
The term you are looking for is Duplex (meaning double).
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/roll...7leyCPaC0orAXS0W-MoaAtN0EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
The term you are looking for is Duplex (meaning double).
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/roll...7leyCPaC0orAXS0W-MoaAtN0EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
They were called roller chains over here. The normal ones we just called timing chains. Don't ask me why. If you asked for a "duplex" they would have looked at you funny, not having a clue what you were talking about.
Nevertheless, russc is correct. Roller chain is even written on the packaging of many chains, simplex or duplex.
My 1970 Mini Cooper S had a duplex chain. And that put out a massive 80 bhp. Favourite car ever.
My 1970 Mini Cooper S had a duplex chain. And that put out a massive 80 bhp. Favourite car ever.
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I wasn't debating that at all.
We simply knew them as roller chains no matter what was on the box. I don't think they were labeled as more than a manufacturer and part number and basic description. These were racing parts and I doubt they even made a normal single sprocket chain for that application. You would have been nuts to use a normal chain with these engines.
We simply knew them as roller chains no matter what was on the box. I don't think they were labeled as more than a manufacturer and part number and basic description. These were racing parts and I doubt they even made a normal single sprocket chain for that application. You would have been nuts to use a normal chain with these engines.
LMAO!
Absolutely!
I'm going to bet (without research, just guessing here) that most new high output motors for their size are interference designs. You need that for high compression.
Absolutely!
I'm going to bet (without research, just guessing here) that most new high output motors for their size are interference designs. You need that for high compression.
MoS2 additives and powder are easily available here, and there was an additive which had Teflon particles, you added a small 50-100 ml can to the fresh engine oil and idled for 30 minutes before driving.
Now I use a long drain oil and change every 10k km, no additives, those have issues like clumping at times.
Now I use a long drain oil and change every 10k km, no additives, those have issues like clumping at times.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention 🙂
Yes, perhaps the first and most popular was Slick-50, but they ran into legal trouble when it was found out they used dodgy/fake info. & testimonials.
In Australia, we have some Nulon products that still use Teflon of various particle size apparently researched to pass through the oil filter.
lol!
We just were concerned with +104 boost (octane booster, basically lead additive) and frequent oil changes. That's starting with premium leaded (remember that stuff?). I used a lot of that stuff, it allowed more advanced timing without predetonation. 1 can per tank approx.
If you were caught running aviation fuel, the fines were stiff. Automotive gas was coloured, no road taxes in the avgas and that was their only concern.
We just were concerned with +104 boost (octane booster, basically lead additive) and frequent oil changes. That's starting with premium leaded (remember that stuff?). I used a lot of that stuff, it allowed more advanced timing without predetonation. 1 can per tank approx.
If you were caught running aviation fuel, the fines were stiff. Automotive gas was coloured, no road taxes in the avgas and that was their only concern.
So called 'Wet Belts' have become the big problem here. Timing belts that run internal to the engine in the oil (who dreamed that one up). These shed particles, clog oil gallery's and the oil strainer on the pump. Result is a seized/trashed engine. As expected these belts are not lasting anywhere near the recommended service interval of 100k/10 years (I believe is the figure). Normal replacement cost if you make it that far is £1000+ as its an engine out job and major strip down.
Just do a search for 'wet belt issues'
Just do a search for 'wet belt issues'
No worries, I wasn't implying you were arguing. 😉
I'm in two minds with belts. When I wanted a no fuss car for my wife, we bought a Ford Mondeo with one of the attractions being that it had a simple engine with a timing chain. But this was very low on the list. However, as I service and repair all the family's cars (except son now) I wanted one less belt job. Yeah I know you don't like Fords Anatech, but the Euro fords are pretty good and drive beautifully. Ours has been flawless and in 140,000km has only needed a water pump. That's it except for oil and filters and brakes discs/pads.
If if the belt system is designed well, it is fine. My Peugeot 405 Mi16 has a 7,200 rpm redline and cuts out at 7,500. Its belt is very sturdy and it has two roller tensioners that are solid, not sprung, adjusted eccentrically. If you change the belts when required there is no risk even with repeated forays to the rev limiter. That said, as the two tensioners affect valve timing because they change the length of their respective belt run, it does take a bit of setting up. I devised a method to adjust them with the car running.
Conversely, my daughter's car, a Holden Astra (same as Vauxhall Astra in UK, Opel Astra in Euro and Saturn Astra in US) has a terribly thin belt where GM had to reduce the service lifespan from 100,000km/4 years to only 60,000km because of failures. Just poor design, it is only about 18mm wide at a guess.
That said, I did a fair bit of study into belts a while back. They used to be made from neoprene rubber, but to meet more strict demands, highly saturated nitrile (HSN) has taken over. The HSN belts I've fitted look pretty much like new at the next belt service and you think, 'geez, this would go another round'. And this is here, where under bonnet (hood) temps on a 42 degree day must be about 120C.
I understand that California brought in a regulation that specified belts had to meet a 100,000 mile lifespan, and HSN was one of the answers. I think nowadays you will see very few neoprene belts on the market except for cheaper aftermarket ones.
Sorry for the silly-long post. I won't post on this topic any more! 🙄
Cheers...
Stu
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Hi Stu,
GM belts are terrible. They were great cars until my last one, a 2011 Malibu. I now drive a Toyota and can't see myself buying anything domestic ever again. They do not deserve to be in business. All domestic makers have designed in fatal problems. The Malibu had a timing belt, and the tensioner failed (wore out) and despite me taking it into the dealer over noise in the engine, they allowed the known fault to continue and eventually fail. Filled the engine with metal filings from the tensioner. >$3,500 to rebuild the engine and used the improved replacement part. It ran perfectly afterwards, but it was just out of warranty when it failed. I did contact GM Canada, "too bad".
The main reason I don't like Ford products here is that they are not reliable. They are larger products than sold elsewhere (all of them are) and so aren't made the same way. They are especially bad, rust and failures that are easily avoided. Imagine, the air conditioning clutch spring was a rubber "O" ring (a big one) at the front of the engine. A 302 cid engine, so it gets hot and it will fail. No other car has that problem. Similar stuff with products sold in North America. Their small cars made for foreign markets are much better, no question.
When building a race engine, you had to do everything to a Ford engine, with GM and Chrysler you only had to pay attention at much higher power outputs. Even front ends on Fords ... they used eccentric cams! Others used shims that stayed aligned. I could go on, but I have raced everything close to stock and rebuilt with aftermarket suspension and front ends. My last Ford cost me more under warranty than any other car out of warranty. My late wife really wanted that one, she learned to dislike the product. All three I owned for personal transportation were disasters.
I'm just assessing them based on direct personal experience over decades. GM and Chrysler join them in the don't buy one list now. North American auto makers have lost the right to be in business from my point of view.
GM belts are terrible. They were great cars until my last one, a 2011 Malibu. I now drive a Toyota and can't see myself buying anything domestic ever again. They do not deserve to be in business. All domestic makers have designed in fatal problems. The Malibu had a timing belt, and the tensioner failed (wore out) and despite me taking it into the dealer over noise in the engine, they allowed the known fault to continue and eventually fail. Filled the engine with metal filings from the tensioner. >$3,500 to rebuild the engine and used the improved replacement part. It ran perfectly afterwards, but it was just out of warranty when it failed. I did contact GM Canada, "too bad".
The main reason I don't like Ford products here is that they are not reliable. They are larger products than sold elsewhere (all of them are) and so aren't made the same way. They are especially bad, rust and failures that are easily avoided. Imagine, the air conditioning clutch spring was a rubber "O" ring (a big one) at the front of the engine. A 302 cid engine, so it gets hot and it will fail. No other car has that problem. Similar stuff with products sold in North America. Their small cars made for foreign markets are much better, no question.
When building a race engine, you had to do everything to a Ford engine, with GM and Chrysler you only had to pay attention at much higher power outputs. Even front ends on Fords ... they used eccentric cams! Others used shims that stayed aligned. I could go on, but I have raced everything close to stock and rebuilt with aftermarket suspension and front ends. My last Ford cost me more under warranty than any other car out of warranty. My late wife really wanted that one, she learned to dislike the product. All three I owned for personal transportation were disasters.
I'm just assessing them based on direct personal experience over decades. GM and Chrysler join them in the don't buy one list now. North American auto makers have lost the right to be in business from my point of view.
Hi everyone,while I'm waiting for spare parts for my ITT Schaub Lorenz Amp and also waiting for the new boards of Rod Elliot's project Nr 101 ,to completely redo the amp, I've got this nice litle TEAC A-H500i where repairs have been completed.I now have to replace some more caps .I got the TEAC in good conditions,mostly solder joints to deal with,loose components....No humb or other strange noices.....Shame,no remote control....Cheers Frank
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@fschmdt65 That's a fine looking integrated amp. I haven't run across that series personally. Hope you get it finished and enjoy it with your tunes.