It's good to escape regularly to a place of peaceful concentration. ✌️
But then I come home from my day job, and have to face again the reality of a messy workbench, open projects and more ideas than my mind can keep track of. Nuts. 🤡
But then I come home from my day job, and have to face again the reality of a messy workbench, open projects and more ideas than my mind can keep track of. Nuts. 🤡
You have to stop now, it's not nice for my little nerves!! 😬I have both Tube and SolidState amplification. In fair quantities... Oh, you already know this, @Fuling ! 😊😉
So you wont be surprised if I say that none is better than the other : just different, depending on how you use it, with what, and with which music !
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But it's me, OK ?
T
It's not always true, @fubar3... At least, that's what I noticed !
After 40 years of tube amp amp repairs and guitar playing, I can tell that there are a great number of Tube Amps - modern or vintage - that often provide a poor sounding overdrive tone when pushed ! And conversely, you can find great sounding overdriven Solid State amps - modern or vintage.
This is not a matter of brand or price, but a matter of design, construction and - of course - way of setting, playing, with which guitar... Finally somewhere like for Audio / Hi-Fi Solid-State / Tubes unending debate.
A point I noted, though : speaking for Hi-Gain guitar amplifiers, often the Solid-State is more quiet (hum / hiss) than the Tube technology. And it doesnt necessarily comes from the guitar itself, even if some are full-ridden AF and RF disturbance receivers and generators !
T
Personally I still have great fun by DIY good sounding tube amps , both for guitars and HI-FI use , where bunch of more tube amps parts waiting for me to be assembled together in more HI-FI tube amps mostly, but I`m more and more convinced that good hybrid amps is one very good solution for DIY ,by using tubes at input voltage gain stages and power Lat-Fet`s for OPS , think that this combination connect together tubes with almost perfect linear voltage gain characteristic and power Mos-Fets for power gain stages , where one very critical and expensive part as output power transformer is not needed anymore ,
and here`s one pics of one of my two ~100W AB class recent DIY tube amp monoblock, but also basic schematic of one really perfectly good sounding hybrid amp , which is designed by famous Russian designer Alexandar Bokarev ,
guy`s excuse me but unfortunately I do not have permission to publicly display the details of that relative simple hybrid amp.
and here`s one pics of one of my two ~100W AB class recent DIY tube amp monoblock, but also basic schematic of one really perfectly good sounding hybrid amp , which is designed by famous Russian designer Alexandar Bokarev ,
guy`s excuse me but unfortunately I do not have permission to publicly display the details of that relative simple hybrid amp.
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Apart from the "nuteness", there is something to be said for the fact that you can put together an amplifier, using components close to 50~100 years old, that can rival any modern solid state amplifier in sound quality.
FUN tube times for me were when TV Sweeps and driver type tubes were plentiful and cheap. $1 or so etc. There was then the challenge of linearizing them WITHOUT a super expensive high BW OT to support gobs of global N FDBK. Hence the popularity of more "local" forms of N FDBK: UL, Schade, driver stage N FDBK from the OT primary, Triode mode outputs, grid 2 drive, Crazy Drive, UNSET, neg. R for fixing the OT (Audio Precision patent )... Failed experiments leading to "expired" tubes -occasionally- were no big deal at $1 a tube. You could practice your aim at the trash bin.
This all required some form of curve tracing to see the tube issues and the fix-up results, which led to the cheap (at the time) Tek 576 curve tracer and numerous upgrades to it for tube use. This soon revealed that most "Audio" tubes were actually the -more- distorting due to rounded plate curve knees (for reducing 2nd H, or 3rd H in P-P, but higher levels of high harmonics ). "Audio" pentode tubes have an optimum load Z due to the high screen current distortion used. Near Linear triodes can avoid this, but are scarce or dangerous to use. And $$$.
I found the ubiquitous FFT plots to be mis-leading and uninformative for design work, just more of a final report card. Using a simple triangle wave drive signal from a function generator with a differentiator OP Amp before the scope display was impressively more informative to see tube stage gain transfer functions and crossover problems (Wing Plots in the SS world, aka Audio Precision ).
Then there was the "treasure hunter" syndrome of looking for super buys on amazing "unknown" tubes. See tube curve traces below. The MIL 6197 for example, $0.35 each in boxes of 100, all matched, who needs 12BY7s.
And coming up with clever prototyping schemes. Some of these turned out to be so unusual, I just leave Amp builds in prototype form now. It's like having the 1st antique versions ever built from a century ago.
21LG6A, low screen current Sweep tube:
26LX6 Sweep tube in Crazy drive:
6HJ5 Sweep tube using UNSET:
6HJ5 Sweep tube in native triode mode:
6197 video (driver) tube, $0.35
6197 in native triode mode, mu 24:
12HL7 video driver in triode mode, mu 30, frame grid:
1E7G DHP in triode mode:
JJ KT77 an "audio" tube with well done knee corrections, notice near constancy of gm above 100V, 50V/div Horiz.:
Surface mount tube sockets with Pomona Spring Clips for prototyping:
This all required some form of curve tracing to see the tube issues and the fix-up results, which led to the cheap (at the time) Tek 576 curve tracer and numerous upgrades to it for tube use. This soon revealed that most "Audio" tubes were actually the -more- distorting due to rounded plate curve knees (for reducing 2nd H, or 3rd H in P-P, but higher levels of high harmonics ). "Audio" pentode tubes have an optimum load Z due to the high screen current distortion used. Near Linear triodes can avoid this, but are scarce or dangerous to use. And $$$.
I found the ubiquitous FFT plots to be mis-leading and uninformative for design work, just more of a final report card. Using a simple triangle wave drive signal from a function generator with a differentiator OP Amp before the scope display was impressively more informative to see tube stage gain transfer functions and crossover problems (Wing Plots in the SS world, aka Audio Precision ).
Then there was the "treasure hunter" syndrome of looking for super buys on amazing "unknown" tubes. See tube curve traces below. The MIL 6197 for example, $0.35 each in boxes of 100, all matched, who needs 12BY7s.
And coming up with clever prototyping schemes. Some of these turned out to be so unusual, I just leave Amp builds in prototype form now. It's like having the 1st antique versions ever built from a century ago.
21LG6A, low screen current Sweep tube:
26LX6 Sweep tube in Crazy drive:
6HJ5 Sweep tube using UNSET:
6HJ5 Sweep tube in native triode mode:
6197 video (driver) tube, $0.35
6197 in native triode mode, mu 24:
12HL7 video driver in triode mode, mu 30, frame grid:
1E7G DHP in triode mode:
JJ KT77 an "audio" tube with well done knee corrections, notice near constancy of gm above 100V, 50V/div Horiz.:
Surface mount tube sockets with Pomona Spring Clips for prototyping:
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Tube or solid state, doesn't matter as long as you're having fun. Getting the most out of whatever you're using is normally the goal. Musical instrument amps are a different breed entirely. Love Fender twins.
But using old parts to better performance of currently available good equipment. Ahhhh, nope. Let's get real here folks. Parts are a lot better today.
But using old parts to better performance of currently available good equipment. Ahhhh, nope. Let's get real here folks. Parts are a lot better today.
This is an interesting aspect, definitely!
Some (probably most) components are best bought fresh from the factory but when it comes to the actual tubes I like the old ones.
Being born in -79, I never experienced tubes in their "wild habitat" in my youth, only in old radios and guitar amps.
The amp I´m listening to right now uses power tubes from around the time when my father was born, 1945, and those are almost modern compared to many other tubes. I have a slightly toxic relationship with RCA 808, the ball-shaped predecessor of 811 from 1938. Even those are "modern" next to the globe 24As that I´ve collected for some reason...
Speaking of old/antique tubes and other parts: Isn't it a hobby in itself to collect the parts?
Old audio triodes are ridiculously expensive nowadays so I'm with smoking-amp here, and I think Tubelab would agree: How much performance can we squeeze out of something by using it in unorthodox ways?
Sweep tubes are excellent when you want plenty of power, my latest obsession is to "tame" high mu transmitter/modulator tubes and make them play music.
An interesting challenge with their hungry filaments, high plate resistance and need for grid current but they can sound good and some of them are absolutely spectacular.
Old audio triodes are ridiculously expensive nowadays so I'm with smoking-amp here, and I think Tubelab would agree: How much performance can we squeeze out of something by using it in unorthodox ways?
Sweep tubes are excellent when you want plenty of power, my latest obsession is to "tame" high mu transmitter/modulator tubes and make them play music.
An interesting challenge with their hungry filaments, high plate resistance and need for grid current but they can sound good and some of them are absolutely spectacular.
This is an old radio I picked up for something to tinker with during the height of the pandemic, when I was working away from home. It is from 1936, and is totally original apart from new caps, and an earthed mains lead.
Here it is playing through its field coil speaker, with its original 2A3 which only measured 5% on a tube tester ... it is not hifi, but it used to fill my bedsit with streamed music for hours on end.
Paillard 70TR
Pure selfishness. 😊
Anyway, I've to sincerely thank you because the title of your thread made me think of Vincent Van Gogh and a famous phrase of his that I wanted to search for in English and whose search brought me to this other one that follows, which is one of the most beautiful things I have read.
"... and then, I have nature and art and poetry, and if that is not enough, what is enough?
There is nothing more truly artistic than to love people.
I don't know anything with certainty, but seeing the stars makes me dream.
Normality is a paved road: it's comfortable to walk, but no flowers grow on it."
I know it seems excessive in a thread of a technical Forum, but apart from the fact that we are also made of this, it is you who mentioned Art... 😉
However, I didn't find the quote I was looking for, but the bottom line is that everything we do is to distract ourselves from thinking...
If necessary tell a possibly protesting zen-oriented spouse (what? another one?) that the sound of one hand clapping can be better perceived with the new tube amp you're about to build.
Don't you end up with 2nd finger and 3rd finger distortion?
As long as you don't get the middle finger I woulnd't worry about that.
While we're at it, for those who don't know and are curious, its meaning is the following:
"The clapping of one hand is, in Zen, the classic example of a koan, that is, an absurdity given to young disciples so that by meditating on the absurd they will create a void in their minds, the basis, according to Zen, for enlightenment.
It is not a riddle that can be solved, it is a means".
For the sake of accuracy, the quote I found instead of the one I was looking for is still by Vincent...
Addressing the artistry side, here are some plain vanilla tubes dressed up with "Octal skirts"
"Octal" dual pentode, 6BN11, 6J11
The 6SPUD5 tube
Make your own giant vacuum tube with a glass clock dome and LED string
"Octal" dual pentode, 6BN11, 6J11
The 6SPUD5 tube
Make your own giant vacuum tube with a glass clock dome and LED string
If I only built what I currently use in my stereo, I probably would have saved money over buying commercial equivalents. But, there's the urge to experiment, which leads to abandoned projects and $$ spent. I haven't bought any new output iron, so that's a big savings. A nice thing about building/repairing tube gear is (ironically) parts are easier to source in the long term, assuming standard types.
I'm sure that's part of it, but rapid turnover of silicon parts types / unlabeled parts / obsolete and proprietary chips make repairing solid state equipment a more difficult proposition! That, and more electrolytics to go bad.
Agreed with regard to turnover on semiconductor parts, especially linear or digital ICs.
Unlabeled or house numbered parts were a problem i started my career with. It is making a comeback and should be banned. There is only one reason to do that, ensure product returns to distributors for repair, and since they don't repair anything it makes equipment unrepairable. Again, this practice should be unlawful.
Capacitors going bad? I have to disagree with you there. We went through tons of caps in the 1970's and 1960's. These days, garbage parts and poor engineering are to blame. The fact that something is solid state means that normally it runs at lower temperatures. Capacitors will naturally last longer, plus today's capacitors are much better. If anything, I see capacitors lasting longer in ell made equipment. Very true for resistors also, carbon composition types were very unreliable and noisy.
Unlabeled or house numbered parts were a problem i started my career with. It is making a comeback and should be banned. There is only one reason to do that, ensure product returns to distributors for repair, and since they don't repair anything it makes equipment unrepairable. Again, this practice should be unlawful.
Capacitors going bad? I have to disagree with you there. We went through tons of caps in the 1970's and 1960's. These days, garbage parts and poor engineering are to blame. The fact that something is solid state means that normally it runs at lower temperatures. Capacitors will naturally last longer, plus today's capacitors are much better. If anything, I see capacitors lasting longer in ell made equipment. Very true for resistors also, carbon composition types were very unreliable and noisy.