This is just my personal experience and personal opinion.
6DJ7/ECC82 is one of the most musical tubes. My experience with 6N23P-EV is very limited. 6N23P/6DJ7/ECC82 can be very noisy, to the point that I have to select them for my RM-9 - Roger Modjeski (rip) power amp. I experimented with a lot of different Russian tubes and I avoid them.
6DJ7/ECC82 is one of the most musical tubes. My experience with 6N23P-EV is very limited. 6N23P/6DJ7/ECC82 can be very noisy, to the point that I have to select them for my RM-9 - Roger Modjeski (rip) power amp. I experimented with a lot of different Russian tubes and I avoid them.
6N23P=6922=E88CC or 6DJ8=ECC88. I don't know what 6DJ7 is. You should be careful with 6DJ8, max. allowed heater-cathode voltage is lower than others, as far as I remember Vkf=50V. E88CC Vkf=+150 and Vkf= -100V. 6N23P Vkf=150V. ECC88 Vkf=60V. Otherwise ECC82=12AU7.
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Hi,
First of all, thanks to diyiggy for pointing me out to this thread.
Im really close to start building the miro's AD1862 Dac without the I/V stage (#7031). However, since Im really new to electronics, I would love to ask for help on a few questions.
1. Which I/V stage sounds do you guys recommend to pair with this board?
2. Is it worth using higher end caps like Audio note or stick with Elna Silmic 2 / Nichicon FGs.
3. Does the DAC benefit from a usb reclocker like fifopiQ7.
4. Which PSU version should I use? Or build supercapacitors from iancanada?
Thank you
First of all, thanks to diyiggy for pointing me out to this thread.
Im really close to start building the miro's AD1862 Dac without the I/V stage (#7031). However, since Im really new to electronics, I would love to ask for help on a few questions.
1. Which I/V stage sounds do you guys recommend to pair with this board?
2. Is it worth using higher end caps like Audio note or stick with Elna Silmic 2 / Nichicon FGs.
3. Does the DAC benefit from a usb reclocker like fifopiQ7.
4. Which PSU version should I use? Or build supercapacitors from iancanada?
Thank you
Look, for this and other projects, I have quite an experience with telefunken CCa, siemens, ecc188, ecc88s, valvo red label, everything... I found my sweet spot with Voskhod (with rocket) 6n23p silver wire mid-70es, (what passive and Cauwil have too). Question of sound signature, naturality, and how music flows. There is no comparison!
I have some experience with 6N23P, 6N6P, 6N3P, 6E5P in preamplifiers and buffers, I never noticed any distinct noise. Only in some Amperex 6922, after a number of years of use, a crackle appears, at first weak and then stronger, it's a done deal, their life span has expired.
6922 is not made like an ECC88. It was an industrial tube for commutations not for télé communication. The 6922 is fastly climbing after some hundred of hours and is far below the ECC88. Best of ECC88 were not made in germany (Siemens copy were poorer and not 100% clone, but people like to buy german) , East Europe or England, but in Néerlandais, France, US (6dj8, and some were sent at NY plant by boat relabeled 6dj8 sometimes).
The 6np23 non EV is a cheap imitation of the ECC88. The EV gas some getter made stratégie to make it less microphonic but the cheap way.
E188CC was the less microphonic, matched 5%, others binned, and burned in on bench before boxing.
Some may like 6np23 cause more colorations, some others prefer less signature. Matter of taste.
The 6np23 non EV is a cheap imitation of the ECC88. The EV gas some getter made stratégie to make it less microphonic but the cheap way.
E188CC was the less microphonic, matched 5%, others binned, and burned in on bench before boxing.
Some may like 6np23 cause more colorations, some others prefer less signature. Matter of taste.
I'd have to look at those Amperex 6922s, I think mine are from the US and quite old. I got them about 30 years ago .I threw away two, I still have three that are working. I used them for a long time because they sounded better than the Siemens E88CC I have. As for the 6N23P, some of the regular ones sounded better to me than the EVs, but I haven't used them long enough so I don't know how they performing in the long run . EVs are certainly more durable. It's all subjective, let's say I like 6N1P and if they are not the same as E88CC, but very cheap tubes. A and Siemens E88CC were slightly microphonic, while Amperex, 6N23P and 6N1P were not. It's just that Siemens are practically eternal, and the others are not. 🤣
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The EV sounds better because they are more proof to microphony and also there were variation from the URSS plants 😉, militar sorting out, the losange 🙂 for some.
It is not E88cc but ECC88. The E188CC is a long life, 5% max before triode, and pre burned in, golden pins like 6922. So à super quitter EC88 if you prefer. The price was muxh more expensive too.
It is not E88cc but ECC88. The E188CC is a long life, 5% max before triode, and pre burned in, golden pins like 6922. So à super quitter EC88 if you prefer. The price was muxh more expensive too.
Tubes sold as NOS are often used tubes even if they do not look like used ones and measure as "new".
Also there are just plain bad real NOS tubes which even if stored properlly did not survived to be called "NOS".
Have such examples of ex-soviet 6N23P which has "crackling" noise and also on one of the true NOS Tesla E88CC - after years of good everyday service have developed similar problems.
At first i thought it was the bad socket which happens often even if the tubes are not "rolled" often - but after changing the Tesla tube with 6N23P-EV it was clear the probably Vh-k parameter is gone bad.
Tesla also had "hiss", very low - has it been there from beginning or developed over time ?
Can't tell since i have changed speakers over last few years from 89 dB efficient to 93 dB and finally to 96 dB efficient speakers.
They have a role - the amp that was dead silent with 89 dB speakers was not silent anymore with 96 dB efficient speakers ( when ear pushed in the midhorn with volume upped almost to the maximum ).
Also there are just plain bad real NOS tubes which even if stored properlly did not survived to be called "NOS".
Have such examples of ex-soviet 6N23P which has "crackling" noise and also on one of the true NOS Tesla E88CC - after years of good everyday service have developed similar problems.
At first i thought it was the bad socket which happens often even if the tubes are not "rolled" often - but after changing the Tesla tube with 6N23P-EV it was clear the probably Vh-k parameter is gone bad.
Tesla also had "hiss", very low - has it been there from beginning or developed over time ?
Can't tell since i have changed speakers over last few years from 89 dB efficient to 93 dB and finally to 96 dB efficient speakers.
They have a role - the amp that was dead silent with 89 dB speakers was not silent anymore with 96 dB efficient speakers ( when ear pushed in the midhorn with volume upped almost to the maximum ).
Thank you for the correction. Sorry, need more caffeine 🙂
Anyone tried 12ax7 in I/V? This tube was designed specifically for audio and used in high quality gear.
Thank you for the recommendation. How do I identify 6n23p silver wire mid-70es?
Did you turn on the tube stage? 🤣
12AT7 would made much more sense than 12AX7, with or without CCS - and 12AY7 even more sense : this is "the" real high quality audio tube.
Sorry for starting a conversation that is outside of the thread subject. Never listened to anything with 12AT7 or 12AY7. Quick research shows that they both have significantly lower gain and produce less colored sound than 12AX7. I suspect I might like that colored sound. 🙂 What makes it the real high quality audio tube?
I am not surprised it sounds better than youe E88CC. The 6NP23 while being microphonic to death (it is relative) is certainly closer to the ECC88 than the E88CC is; in fact one should avoid E88CC or 6922. While some noticed good 6922 (good colorations ?).
Try to source an E188CC in France, there are sometimes good prices. Try Valco or RT labelled. This is the one for the less coloration imo. Then buffer it or Hybrid Mu it.... Anyway there is still the blocking cap anyway... @gaszto (thanks again for your help) here has a good scheme inspired from Moglia, a little simplier than the Grunf 's strictly CCS schemes (some prefer the 100% CCS ).
One should go with the EV if choosing a 6NP23. Have you read the recent entries about T Loesch on the other thread ? Quite interresting... Some other references than the tubes discussed here. I look forward to try the discrete BJT Loesch stage he seems to prefer today after a life of experience other the tubes he knows well !
YMMV, of course.... this is DIY, some will be happy with AD811, some others with EC88, Burson, Sparkos, etc ! For myself, the game is the current output of the DAC chip sees the lowest impedance as possible at the I/V input !
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1. Since you mentioned you are new, I really recommend you build a board with onboard IV. play with the various op amps available easily , be it IC or discrete ones. you can bring it further after you have successfully built a working DAC and playing with various op amps by bringing the output to an off-board IV stage. eg. tube stage.... or discrete transistors UV etc, if you are planning to go this far.
2. Higher end caps? You mean more expensive caps than Elna/Nichicon? Maybe some experts on parts selection can answer this better.
3. Maybe you can get some answers in Ian Canada's thread since there are many users there, to feedback on their implementation on their dac and its effects.
4. Miro's PSU2 for a start. It is good. Get it working first and then play with your batteries. You may not even bother with batteries after your DAC is built.