Not of the terminals, but about the way of connecting the wires from amp output to binding post which not everyone does correctly (in this case not even the reviewer of the 3 amplifiers).
That way does influence the maintenance of good sound throughout the process more than the quality or the amount of metal of the binding post. IMO
P. S.: However, in my opinion, the absolute best connector does not exist because everything also depends on the fact that they are inserted into a system and on the fact that cost is never a secondary factor.
Everything has to be well balanced, in my opinion, it's all there one of the secrets of good sound. IMO
Let me explain (hopefully) better what I mean.
As I already said the article shows the inside of the 3 amplifiers and you can see that the wiring between the output connectors on the module and the binding posts on the case are just simple, but they should be twisted instead.
That's all.
I mean, that would be all, just because in my opinion the reviewer (assuming that he assembled the 3 amplifiers himself) he also made a mistake in the direction of the Nilai modules because he would have had to arrange the module with the output connectors facing the binding posts on the case (and not facing towards the left) obtaining 2 immediate advantages: reducing the length of the cables, but most of all optimizing their path.
That way, balanced input wires will be a little longer, but who cares?
The following screenshot shows the wrong wiring above described (and the first one that does not require wiring, which is an advantage over wiring them badly in a simple way).
In one of my Class D amplifiers I mounted four binding posts per channel to be useful for bi-wiring and twisting the 4 needed wires (also because they were of a fair thickness) was not at all simple also because they had to be rather short for obvious reasons.
So, after a long search I found the following video which shows in a way that I really like how to make a braid with 4 strands (the last example in the following video).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdvugjyP6ZI
And this is what I did (they seem 2 wires, but there are 4 ones).
As I already said the article shows the inside of the 3 amplifiers and you can see that the wiring between the output connectors on the module and the binding posts on the case are just simple, but they should be twisted instead.
That's all.
I mean, that would be all, just because in my opinion the reviewer (assuming that he assembled the 3 amplifiers himself) he also made a mistake in the direction of the Nilai modules because he would have had to arrange the module with the output connectors facing the binding posts on the case (and not facing towards the left) obtaining 2 immediate advantages: reducing the length of the cables, but most of all optimizing their path.
That way, balanced input wires will be a little longer, but who cares?
The following screenshot shows the wrong wiring above described (and the first one that does not require wiring, which is an advantage over wiring them badly in a simple way).
In one of my Class D amplifiers I mounted four binding posts per channel to be useful for bi-wiring and twisting the 4 needed wires (also because they were of a fair thickness) was not at all simple also because they had to be rather short for obvious reasons.
So, after a long search I found the following video which shows in a way that I really like how to make a braid with 4 strands (the last example in the following video).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdvugjyP6ZI
And this is what I did (they seem 2 wires, but there are 4 ones).
What is the importance of twisting 5cm of wire? To reduce rf radiation back to the inputs? Can the difference be measured, per example with a short loop at the end of a scope probe? Would it materially change anything at the output of the amp? And perhaps most importantly: is it audible?
Dear @analog_sa if you thought that I was a scientist who posts around the forum to give absolute answers to those who ask something knowing already that they won't believe the answer, well you're wrong.
But please don't get me wrong, I respect you a lot and I'm not saying what I said against you.
I'm just tired of splitting hairs over arguments about blind faith or science.
Regarding the latter, science applied to audio, there are those on this same forum who swear that very thin wire connections are better than thick cable ones or that they only use one brand of resistors rather than another for its sonic feature, please go and ask them first what you asked me and then maybe we'll talk about it again, okay?
And most of all, please ask Bruno about the why, since his word is certainly infinitely more credible than mine, at least in this area. 😉
P. S.: I repeat that I sincerely respect you and your work a lot and I'm not saying what I said against you. 🙂
But please don't get me wrong, I respect you a lot and I'm not saying what I said against you.
I'm just tired of splitting hairs over arguments about blind faith or science.
Regarding the latter, science applied to audio, there are those on this same forum who swear that very thin wire connections are better than thick cable ones or that they only use one brand of resistors rather than another for its sonic feature, please go and ask them first what you asked me and then maybe we'll talk about it again, okay?
And most of all, please ask Bruno about the why, since his word is certainly infinitely more credible than mine, at least in this area. 😉
P. S.: I repeat that I sincerely respect you and your work a lot and I'm not saying what I said against you. 🙂
"simply"? 🙂
You can be sure that if Bruno recommends doing so I will do it without hesitation. 😉
Class D amps seem susceptible more than other design due to very high switching frequency.
Reading reviews claiming the Nilai is laid back spooks me.
Having said that, the only question I believe I would really want to know, is which of these options retain the benefits of this amp class's sound, while fleshing out the vocalist with realism and Class A or tube amp presence? 🤔😶😶😶
No kidding about ... this is what I find missing in hyper low distortion such as these. The few I have heard. They're amazing specs. But the realism?
Having said that, the only question I believe I would really want to know, is which of these options retain the benefits of this amp class's sound, while fleshing out the vocalist with realism and Class A or tube amp presence? 🤔😶😶😶
No kidding about ... this is what I find missing in hyper low distortion such as these. The few I have heard. They're amazing specs. But the realism?
Nilais as far as I can tell (I own monoblocks) pass along whatever they're fed without adding anything or taking anything away. If you're looking for character in your power amplifier, look elsewhere
Character or colors,.... No.
Realism, yes.
To hint any Class D is "there" yet isn't realistic. Once quality Class A and quality Class D meet in the middle, we should all celebrate.
Hearing the difference back to back, with a transparent instant switch reveals how close they are anymore.... except for the presence.
Realism, yes.
To hint any Class D is "there" yet isn't realistic. Once quality Class A and quality Class D meet in the middle, we should all celebrate.
Hearing the difference back to back, with a transparent instant switch reveals how close they are anymore.... except for the presence.
If a class A amp possesses something a good class D amp like the Nilai lacks, I would bet it is a pleasant distortion, or what I'd call character, or color. The Nilai doesn't sound "real" or "present". It doesn't sound like anything. It passes along and amplifies the signal it's fed, and if that signal is "real" sounding, that quality won't be diminished or augmented through the Nilais. I have experienced inferior class D amps which absolutely suck the life out of the music. They were impossible to live with. The Nilais do no such thing. They really live up to the "straight wire with gain" idea
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The biggest difference from the comparison I did at my place (Aleph J clone vs Nilai monoblocks) was in microdynamics, at lowish listening levels below 7W. The difference manifested as a quicker sound. I am not sure how else to explain this. The Aleph J also sound much more natural... like the instruments sounded more realistic. The listening levels/output power were low (but more than enough for loud listening levels), so I did not experience any distortion coming from either; not even from Aleph J at that output.
I think the overprocessing of class D amplifiers is where the difference comes from; Aleph J has only 2 gain stages...
Nevertheless, the Nilai monoblocks were ripping my speakers apart, virtually... but that power (which I would never need) came with no finesse at normal listening levels. Class D felt uninspiring. I do not believe the class D design complexity will ever be a competitor to the simplistic approach of a 2-gain stage amplification... especially if the second gain stage works in pure class A, single-ended.
I also do not plug anything with an SMPS into the same outlet as my Aleph J and May DAC. More info here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/post-you-smps-noise-spectrum-measurements.394518/
I think the overprocessing of class D amplifiers is where the difference comes from; Aleph J has only 2 gain stages...
Nevertheless, the Nilai monoblocks were ripping my speakers apart, virtually... but that power (which I would never need) came with no finesse at normal listening levels. Class D felt uninspiring. I do not believe the class D design complexity will ever be a competitor to the simplistic approach of a 2-gain stage amplification... especially if the second gain stage works in pure class A, single-ended.
I also do not plug anything with an SMPS into the same outlet as my Aleph J and May DAC. More info here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/post-you-smps-noise-spectrum-measurements.394518/
I have heard Aleph J very much has its own character. I might be misusing the word, but I consider any deviation from the original signal to be distortion. If the Aleph J imparts its own character on the sound, it is I would say distorting it
If I do a side by side comparison between my Nilais and my Classe DR-8 monoblocks, the DR-8's have distinctly more flavor. I wouldn't say that makes the Nilai's lacking in comparison. It's just that the DR-8's add something, while the Nilai's don't. I'm not saying flavor is a bad thing, I'm just saying that's what it is.
Of course I may be mistaken, but it seems like people are comparing very colored class a amps to very uncolored class d amps, liking the color, then judging class d as a technology for lacking it. As a "proof" of this, many diehard class a fans hear class d power amps with tube buffers, or other color generators, and love them
This is all assuming Aleph J is not a neutral amplifier, which I can't speak to personally. It's just what I've read
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Hi, I have hypothesis for this but have no class A amp so cannot test myself. If you don't mind I ask what is your listening setup like? is it a dedicated music room with acoustics and careful speaker position or regular domestic room with far (10ft) listening distance?
Apparently auditory system uses harmonics and resulting amplitude peaks for every fundamental cycle to identify sounds and consider if sound is close or far and pay attention to it or not. The realism might be due to some extra low order harmonic distortion increasing the amplitude peaks, which then helps brain to lock in and pay attention. This is actually relatively easy to hear or notice in everyday situations and also with stereo, when brain is with you or not, and can be switched between moving myself a little closer or further from sound source/speakers.
If my hypothesis that some extra lownorder harmonics of class A amplifier helps brain to lock in is true one could test it with listening both amps at close and far listening distance. On close listening there should be less difference between the two as brain can easily lock in without extra harmonics. Another test I would like to do is listen at what distance the transition happens, where brain locks in. I speculate it likely extends further into the room with some extra harmonics added.
Well, it could be anything, I've found out sound is much much more "realistic" just by having short enough listening distance, while listening further away it'sjust hazy sound in the room. Our definition for realism might not mean same thing though, I haven't had class A power amp here for example, but can increase realism just moving myself closer, with cheap class D amp.
Thanks!
ps. just realized I migh be able to add harmonics with some software to test this 😀
Even if not about Nilai, but about Hypex 500 or 400, I agree with you word for word.
I could only add that for those very reasons, what is found before them and the "character" of the speakers they are connected to also matters.
In my system I have achieved remarkable and satisfying levels of realism having subtracted "something", not added as distorsion or flavor.
Linear does not mean without character, but it is the most desirable character in my opinion, and they are just linear (in the best sense of the term), to my ears.
The word "realism" is a bit too ambiguous in this case because it lends itself to too many personal interpretations.
From my point of view, adding any type of distortion or "flavor" reduces realism in most kind of systems, not increases it.
If there were even personal preferences in the interpretation of "realism", I believe that the causes, the origins of those preferences should be identified before asking a system to play as one likes.
"The difference manifested as a quicker sound. I am not sure how else to explain this. The Aleph J also sound much more natural."
And THIS is just the totality of my experiences with Class D compared to good Class A or A/B.
I easily hear the advantages of Class D's advantages. I don't deny it at all.
But if a straight wire with gain, and crazy low distortion is not realistic sounding, it matters not to me.
Sounds good and purist to say, "changes nothing, just plays what it's fed" ... but not if the life is gone.
Maybe it's my background. I've been a recording musician since 1981. I've been a recording engineer, and I've owned my own studio. This makes me crazy familiar with how things sounded in my own studio, live. And THIS comparison is how I'm judging amplifiers.
Not how low is the distortion...
But does it sound like it did live.
My playing, my instruments, my voice, my studio, etc. This gives me a pretty good reference for realism.
We can discuss the technology and designs ... but what matters to me is what I consider realism.
Listening to great Class D always leaves me "realizing" or feeling something isn't quite right. And I want to end my listening session early.
I really agree with one well made point: Speakers and associated equipment should be necessary for good synergy with Class D.
Smoother speakers would definitely be my choice. I'd also go with dipole mids/highs or open baffle speakers, to try and recapture some of what feels missing. My late 90s pair of Alon 5i would have been good, most likely.
My current speakers will NOT gloss over the truth. Accuton mids, Aruum Cantus AMT, and AE woofers are not anything but stupidly honest. I've never heard a speaker more revealing of upstream changes.
And there was another fair question about my amplification. I am indeed comparing to one of the best amplifiers ever made. But this amp's main claim actually IS Class D black background, earth shattering dynamics, and seemingly zero coloration. But that should be about as good of a comparison as it gets with Class A amplifiers.
My BEL 1001 Mk5s are 200w/ch into 8 ohms, 400w/ch into 4 ohms, and 800w/ch into 2 ohms.
And I haven't been able to replace them since 1997 in my system.
They're obviously getting old, and I've spent several years, trying to find my future replacement. But the only things I have found to equal my BEL amplifiers sound quality are amplifiers over $8k. I can't eeeeeven afford this.
This is why I occasionally post and ask about the current state of Class D. I'm hoping all it's benefits can be enjoyed with a bit more "realism" as the technology grows and advances.
I thank everyone immensely! I appreciate the straightforward and clear thoughts on the subject.
And THIS is just the totality of my experiences with Class D compared to good Class A or A/B.
I easily hear the advantages of Class D's advantages. I don't deny it at all.
But if a straight wire with gain, and crazy low distortion is not realistic sounding, it matters not to me.
Sounds good and purist to say, "changes nothing, just plays what it's fed" ... but not if the life is gone.
Maybe it's my background. I've been a recording musician since 1981. I've been a recording engineer, and I've owned my own studio. This makes me crazy familiar with how things sounded in my own studio, live. And THIS comparison is how I'm judging amplifiers.
Not how low is the distortion...
But does it sound like it did live.
My playing, my instruments, my voice, my studio, etc. This gives me a pretty good reference for realism.
We can discuss the technology and designs ... but what matters to me is what I consider realism.
Listening to great Class D always leaves me "realizing" or feeling something isn't quite right. And I want to end my listening session early.
I really agree with one well made point: Speakers and associated equipment should be necessary for good synergy with Class D.
Smoother speakers would definitely be my choice. I'd also go with dipole mids/highs or open baffle speakers, to try and recapture some of what feels missing. My late 90s pair of Alon 5i would have been good, most likely.
My current speakers will NOT gloss over the truth. Accuton mids, Aruum Cantus AMT, and AE woofers are not anything but stupidly honest. I've never heard a speaker more revealing of upstream changes.
And there was another fair question about my amplification. I am indeed comparing to one of the best amplifiers ever made. But this amp's main claim actually IS Class D black background, earth shattering dynamics, and seemingly zero coloration. But that should be about as good of a comparison as it gets with Class A amplifiers.
My BEL 1001 Mk5s are 200w/ch into 8 ohms, 400w/ch into 4 ohms, and 800w/ch into 2 ohms.
And I haven't been able to replace them since 1997 in my system.
They're obviously getting old, and I've spent several years, trying to find my future replacement. But the only things I have found to equal my BEL amplifiers sound quality are amplifiers over $8k. I can't eeeeeven afford this.
This is why I occasionally post and ask about the current state of Class D. I'm hoping all it's benefits can be enjoyed with a bit more "realism" as the technology grows and advances.
I thank everyone immensely! I appreciate the straightforward and clear thoughts on the subject.