Well Bryguy, that kind of is the magic of BEL amplifiers. Amazing neutrality, insane current, and the ability to be "super neutral" while still retaining very lifelike timbre.
Like a pure Class A amplifier has a baby with great Class D amplifier.
I have in person, watched Jeff Rowland, David Reich, Ariel Brown, and more scratch their heads and claim BEL amplifiers shouldn't work as they do. And the engineering is crazy different, with strangely non standard amplifier design principles of hifi. I worked many years in the industry, and hosted these vendors when they visited.
Thank you. I used to have money. And I have nice things left. Now I have to spend more carefully, due to health issues.
I'm blessed to have a system that reveals anything and everything upstream.
There's a slew of gear that I could be happy with in different systems.
I'm googling about these BEL amps and the image you posted is like 2002 amp images I found online. 1001 looks similar inside but has only half of the stuff. 2002 schematics available here on diyaudio so the amp gurus could perhaps highlight whats the magic in the schematics, what isndifferent than with some other amps.
Partially ...
I had monoblocks, and combined them into a single chassis, like the 2002. Only mine is superior, as they are Mk5 monoblocks. Or five generations after the 2002.
Funny enough, they look almost identical inside!
Unfortunately... no. The best in the industry has looked at Dick's schematics. No-one has it figured just what he was doing.
More interesting, several companies purchased everything Dick left ... including notes. Money was put into starting BEL 2.0 ... No-one has been able to even figure what/where some if the parts were/are sourced. He combined technology from the radio industry, not seen elsewhere in hifi amp design. The radio part is learned directly from Dick in 1997, when he visited. You were NOT picking his brain! I tried ... only to be told to purchase Classe if I was concerned. Then he winked and told me, either buy it because it sounds better, or buy something that you can tell yourself sounds better 😉. Ha!
Very good engineers have tried to build them... to zero sucess.
I had monoblocks, and combined them into a single chassis, like the 2002. Only mine is superior, as they are Mk5 monoblocks. Or five generations after the 2002.
Funny enough, they look almost identical inside!
Unfortunately... no. The best in the industry has looked at Dick's schematics. No-one has it figured just what he was doing.
More interesting, several companies purchased everything Dick left ... including notes. Money was put into starting BEL 2.0 ... No-one has been able to even figure what/where some if the parts were/are sourced. He combined technology from the radio industry, not seen elsewhere in hifi amp design. The radio part is learned directly from Dick in 1997, when he visited. You were NOT picking his brain! I tried ... only to be told to purchase Classe if I was concerned. Then he winked and told me, either buy it because it sounds better, or buy something that you can tell yourself sounds better 😉. Ha!
Very good engineers have tried to build them... to zero sucess.
Some of the issue is, Dick did a lot by hand/ear. Each amplifier was tuned by Dick. Some of his knowledge and tricks was not written down. He was .... non standard.
To be honest, even though I find that wooden box very nice, if Nilai stuff were mine I wouldn't do it, but I would use a larger and taller (comparing its size to what you will put inside) metal/aluminum cabinet.
I think it's the Clock's fault.
Do you remember the sound of the first low clock and high slope filter cdplayers?
Now that the trend has been reversed the sound is better.
The same thing could happen with class D.
Also, by fully balancing and starting from a single clock base from the switching power supply, the interference will decrease even more.
Do you remember the sound of the first low clock and high slope filter cdplayers?
Now that the trend has been reversed the sound is better.
The same thing could happen with class D.
Also, by fully balancing and starting from a single clock base from the switching power supply, the interference will decrease even more.
I have som experience with Class D amps, but is now running a Nelson Pass F5 2 x 30w Class A amp.
First one was LC Audio ZapSolute or something like that, with a double analog PSU, something of a Rock monster with real slam in the bass, but it was not a real HiFi amp. One of those is still en action here 15 years after in a high end system. The buyer have not been able to find something he likes better. But it is still not HiFi.
Much later I build a construction from the same designer, now calles NewClassD, with computer control, dual analog PSU, dual feed back loops ... That is the best Class D I have ever heard, but it was VERY expensive.
Later I build a Hypex UcD180 with SMPS supply, it sounded like crap. Then I bought a French amp based on Hypex UcD400 with HXR regulators and dual analog PSU, that actually sounded quite good.
Then I build 2 mono blocks from a version of Hypex NC500 with on board SMPS supplies. That is the worst sounding amps I have ever had. And they measured like crap. You could see how the switching frequency destroyed the 1 KHz sine wave. The people who wanted to buy them backed out within 30 seconds.
And now I am building a Danish Tomahawk, but I have not heard it yet.
I have heard some other class D amps based on a TI chipset which sounded ok.
First one was LC Audio ZapSolute or something like that, with a double analog PSU, something of a Rock monster with real slam in the bass, but it was not a real HiFi amp. One of those is still en action here 15 years after in a high end system. The buyer have not been able to find something he likes better. But it is still not HiFi.
Much later I build a construction from the same designer, now calles NewClassD, with computer control, dual analog PSU, dual feed back loops ... That is the best Class D I have ever heard, but it was VERY expensive.
Later I build a Hypex UcD180 with SMPS supply, it sounded like crap. Then I bought a French amp based on Hypex UcD400 with HXR regulators and dual analog PSU, that actually sounded quite good.
Then I build 2 mono blocks from a version of Hypex NC500 with on board SMPS supplies. That is the worst sounding amps I have ever had. And they measured like crap. You could see how the switching frequency destroyed the 1 KHz sine wave. The people who wanted to buy them backed out within 30 seconds.
And now I am building a Danish Tomahawk, but I have not heard it yet.
I have heard some other class D amps based on a TI chipset which sounded ok.
I’ve heard great things about the New Class D amps, as the best Class D.
I’ve had NC400, Nord NC500’s with a variety of op-amps on the input buffer, icepower 1200AS and currently have Purifi 400’s. With the Purifi build, I’ve gone “audiophile”. I have Sami, from Micro SMPS 1200 supplies to each amp module, specced with Mundorf capacitors and Neurochrome buffer. The Neurochrome buffer has Sparko regulators and the SMPS also has Sparko regulators. Therefore the amp modulator and input buffer is dual regulated.
I agree I couldn’t get the NC500’s to sound good. The NC400s, I can’t really recall but I’m sure they were better than the 500’s. Could be buffer related.
The 1200AS2, was a nice amp. Smooth. However, I think they over compensated from their previous harsh sounding amps. They’re not capable of high resolution, but still can be very enjoyable.
The Purifi amplifiers, are capable of lots of resolution (far more than 1200AS2), clean and neutral sound. However, they do not have the realism and Air of great class A. None of the Class D amps I own have. I suspect the Neurochrome buffer isn’t to my taste. I do want to try the Purifi bufferless as I did gain some improvements that way with the Nc500’s. The Purifi’s are fantastic for linear, clean and impactful bass (does have its own flavour of bass)
I use the Purifi on bass and Audio Note Shinri or Kegon balanced for Lower Midrange and up. That setup gives you a really nice fast/clean bass but adds the realism, depth and Air for that all important midrange.
I’ve had NC400, Nord NC500’s with a variety of op-amps on the input buffer, icepower 1200AS and currently have Purifi 400’s. With the Purifi build, I’ve gone “audiophile”. I have Sami, from Micro SMPS 1200 supplies to each amp module, specced with Mundorf capacitors and Neurochrome buffer. The Neurochrome buffer has Sparko regulators and the SMPS also has Sparko regulators. Therefore the amp modulator and input buffer is dual regulated.
I agree I couldn’t get the NC500’s to sound good. The NC400s, I can’t really recall but I’m sure they were better than the 500’s. Could be buffer related.
The 1200AS2, was a nice amp. Smooth. However, I think they over compensated from their previous harsh sounding amps. They’re not capable of high resolution, but still can be very enjoyable.
The Purifi amplifiers, are capable of lots of resolution (far more than 1200AS2), clean and neutral sound. However, they do not have the realism and Air of great class A. None of the Class D amps I own have. I suspect the Neurochrome buffer isn’t to my taste. I do want to try the Purifi bufferless as I did gain some improvements that way with the Nc500’s. The Purifi’s are fantastic for linear, clean and impactful bass (does have its own flavour of bass)
I use the Purifi on bass and Audio Note Shinri or Kegon balanced for Lower Midrange and up. That setup gives you a really nice fast/clean bass but adds the realism, depth and Air for that all important midrange.
@sebbyp ... This is exactly my own experience.
Regardless of superior distortion or measurements, there's something not "right" with Class D.
It never sounds lifelike enough.
It's like they perfected everything, but removed the life from the music.
Regardless of superior distortion or measurements, there's something not "right" with Class D.
It never sounds lifelike enough.
It's like they perfected everything, but removed the life from the music.
Funny how I have the experiance that the good ones seem utterly transparent and neutral i.e. perfect for music reproduction. The rest of my system has been developed with class-d amps all the time since say 20 years. When I insert a class A/B amp they sound thick and coloured.
My reference is non amplified acoustical instrument based music. I typically visit concert halls once a month. Hypex nC400 is e.g. a great amp.
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My reference is non amplified acoustical instrument based music. I typically visit concert halls once a month. Hypex nC400 is e.g. a great amp.
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I guess it all depends on what you're used to. My only comment is that I really don't think the differences are inherent to the amp type. I really believe any class amp can be tailored to anyone's preferences. Class A/B can be precise And neutral, and class D can be "lifelike". I think it all depends on implementation and partnering equipment
This may be a factor (as said), but also I believe they need (and give their best) to be driven by balanced devices/connections.
And what if we put the same coil and capacitor in an A/B that are present at the output of a class D ?
The day I place a Class D amplifier in my extremely neutral system, and the timbre and presence remain, I will purchase monoblocks immediately!
ALL another amplifier has to do, is sit on top of my BEL amplifier and not lose the realism when compared. I'll buy that amp.
I've tried probably 20 different amplifiers in comparison.... I still own the BEL.
ALL another amplifier has to do, is sit on top of my BEL amplifier and not lose the realism when compared. I'll buy that amp.
I've tried probably 20 different amplifiers in comparison.... I still own the BEL.
Please understand that I WANT to find a replacement. The BEL won't last forever, and no-one can repair them properly.
I'm sincerely trying to find my next amplifiers, and not just arguing.
A friend is suggesting that I purchase a good tube preamp to blend with a digital amp. Sounds like a bandaid, more than system matching. Because my system is already neutral. Adding any component that adds "color" to replace timbre seems like a bandaid.
Please help me see if I am not in the right perspective with this.
I'm sincerely trying to find my next amplifiers, and not just arguing.
A friend is suggesting that I purchase a good tube preamp to blend with a digital amp. Sounds like a bandaid, more than system matching. Because my system is already neutral. Adding any component that adds "color" to replace timbre seems like a bandaid.
Please help me see if I am not in the right perspective with this.
To be honest I think you are in the right direction anyway (whatever that means) just because you seem to have a clear idea about what you want.
That's why I guess no one can help you except your own sense of hearing.
Not to mention the fact that no matter how your system sounds, replacing an amplifier will inevitably change at least one or some of its sonic characteristics which in turn will change the resulting SQ.
I also think it won't be easy to find an exact replacement for your current amplifier because it would have to be a clone that doesn't exist.
You could always find something even better, though.
Never say never, but you will have to try some of them by replacing the existing one into your system.
Given your premises I don't see any other way to do it.