Doesn't appear to be accessible from my location 1400km from Sydney. Shipping is often not honoured on large items, with sellers calling an out-of-stock item after the transaction. I had a successful delivery of a 3D printer after 4 attempts at buying and 3 cancellations from the sellers, different sellers and brands just as one example
SBA, Dayton, DS18 are three brands so far for consistent successful delivery and the last has not had the products glued concentric
SBA, Dayton, DS18 are three brands so far for consistent successful delivery and the last has not had the products glued concentric
You want:
115dB/1m at 30Hz?
For a closed box you simply have to find a driver
15" with an Xmax of 30.5mm or 61mm peak to peak.
Pick an amp with matching power and you are done.
The box volume doesn't matter, you only need more power with less volume.
With a vented box you need more volume or you will run into the problem of the port getting too long and having more volume than the box (resonator) itself. No, the vent volume doesn't count as box volume.
Build a proper horn and you will need much less cone excursion, but have a cabinet the size of a small garage.
115dB/1m at 30Hz?
For a closed box you simply have to find a driver
15" with an Xmax of 30.5mm or 61mm peak to peak.
Pick an amp with matching power and you are done.
The box volume doesn't matter, you only need more power with less volume.
With a vented box you need more volume or you will run into the problem of the port getting too long and having more volume than the box (resonator) itself. No, the vent volume doesn't count as box volume.
Build a proper horn and you will need much less cone excursion, but have a cabinet the size of a small garage.
that spike is very easy to fix with an offset driver design @ 45 cm
Attachments
80l external indeed is deadly for PA. Even I would go car audio here. There are some nice drivers to drive such enclosure to its full potential, but prepare up to $600.
Most of the SIMS are purely academic and pretty pointless. Who has a listening point 1m away from a driver?
The urban environment in which you likely hear a car sub maybe somewhat misleading. Typically you're in a street with buildings on either side.
Put 5kw car system against a 5kw PA in the middle of a field - it's not even close.
The urban environment in which you likely hear a car sub maybe somewhat misleading. Typically you're in a street with buildings on either side.
Put 5kw car system against a 5kw PA in the middle of a field - it's not even close.
Really? 5 sites of discussion why a 12" car sub outperforms a few (unknown) pa stacks?
If the 12" has higher output + more definition, why don't set the car up next to the outdoor pa, integrate it, mute the other subs and let the folks enjoy that performance?
In my opinion it's more a psych acoustics effect that car (normal sized) subs sound loud 50m away from the car, because of dampening mids and highs + the suddenly rised bass noise if the car comes closer.
Of course, there are 20kw++ car subs which rattle windows when pass by. Mostly at 40-50 hz. Has nothing to do with music representation.
If the 12" has higher output + more definition, why don't set the car up next to the outdoor pa, integrate it, mute the other subs and let the folks enjoy that performance?
In my opinion it's more a psych acoustics effect that car (normal sized) subs sound loud 50m away from the car, because of dampening mids and highs + the suddenly rised bass noise if the car comes closer.
Of course, there are 20kw++ car subs which rattle windows when pass by. Mostly at 40-50 hz. Has nothing to do with music representation.
See, personal preference and storage matter too. Most of my exposure has been with sealed subs, but I keep changing back to ported as I just like that sound. Not all ported, not most ported. Just the keepers like my Aaron AP3 fronts and my set of 7" subs and the old box in the car
Many sealed have had a run in both car and home and pass up on. Earthquake sounds, JL, Peerless, Vifa, Hertz, Focal and whatever else was getting a run at the car workshop. I did finish work for very special installations from my own workshop. Anyway, even though, I don't see the necessity of trying to justify the preference for the ported sound. It just is
Any driver size is acceptable, but has to be ported low 30s and no larger footprint than 400mmx400mm. Current plan is 3 more drivers if the 12" with 35mm one-way Xmax pans out for clean 115dB down to low 30s per box. Do you feel I would complain if it can be done down near the 60L external mark? Why would I want to give up on that challenge?
But that unnecessary argument has its own place where it belongs. The question raised here is why do the SQ class of the high-powered/low efficiency drivers from the pro mobile industry (this is distinctly different class from the SPL drivers most folks here are assuming) are able to drive a low, short and dry kick as in the dub track linked a very long way and through buildings while much larger PA arrays used in the same area don't
The vehicle acting as horn vs cardioid radiation pattern applied to the PA does a reasonable job of explaining it. Most people have been able to say so without personal remarks, and maybe you can start now too
That's expensive, given the fact that TLHP has LN19S00 for about $500. I had few good PA speakers in my car. Tuned higher, they could romp. Certainly audible from far. There are some great characteristics of car speaker, but I would attribute that superior mood to just being peaky at about 50Hz. For large diameters like 18", I'd not go with anything smaller than 4.5" coil, because those lesser drivers do not withstand constant sinewave tones near port tuning frequency well.
Stuff from EU are more expensive in the USA...import tariffs apply and in top of that the euro to dollar exchange rate, plus the middle man's cut...people living close to Italy are golden !! With the prices
Wish I lived in Germany ..BMS and Ciare
Italy..B&C..La voce..18sound
At much better prices than in USA...
Here we have Eminence
But prices are not much better than the imported ones
Italy..B&C..La voce..18sound
At much better prices than in USA...
Here we have Eminence
But prices are not much better than the imported ones
Nah. Wages are lower, taxes higher, interest rates higher and everything else exchanged 1:1 Euro-Dolar. Speakers are only thing ever we can buy for halfway decent prices. Let us have it. 🤭
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Looks awesome. Hey man, I couldn't afford to replace the W7. But if it is comfortably within your means, then give it a go. The kind of definition, authority and control this thing has over bass is something special and should be experienced. The 13 should be a better choice than my 12 if space is not an issue but they really need to be hung of 2kwrms to get the best
That´s a lotta boom, and it scales favourably with PA drivers pricewise.
The issue probably is in that you can´t put all that power in the driver at 80-100Hz where the coil will not be moving much and cooling much. These beasts must stay moving, so we are talkng here about 60Hz cutoff. Such approach requires another band. Box volume size wise, it might end up being equal or somewhat better even, but price wise, it will not end up good still. But, I appreciate this product. It is very good, and it certainly can be an alternative. I haven´t seen this being possible yet with other commercial products.
The issue probably is in that you can´t put all that power in the driver at 80-100Hz where the coil will not be moving much and cooling much. These beasts must stay moving, so we are talkng here about 60Hz cutoff. Such approach requires another band. Box volume size wise, it might end up being equal or somewhat better even, but price wise, it will not end up good still. But, I appreciate this product. It is very good, and it certainly can be an alternative. I haven´t seen this being possible yet with other commercial products.
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If I am not mistaken , the driver of choice for the FT30 (EPA moded TH18) hit 140 with 4 cabinets with the 18SW115 at Xmax
With this fi audio driver you can hit 150 with 4 cabs , 10dB more , price difference is around 400 usd between them,
If you factor 4... That's 1600 usd
So to hit 150 with the 15SW115 you will need to double cabs/power to gain 6dB more
That's 8 cabinets total and we still missing 4dB
So with 16 15SW115's you will hit 152dB in a perfect world...
But 16 15SW115 are 683usd times 16 that is
10,936 ... With tax is 11,833!!!
Add 3ply per cabinet..
.that is assuming 80 bucks per ply..240 per cab..times 16...3,840 for wood
Plus 11,833 in driver ..equals
15,673 with the BC
Fi audio...4 drivers ...999x4...4000
4000 + 240ply times 4...equals 960 almost another driver
Basically is like buying 5 drivers ...
5k to have 4 cabs with the FI audio driver
Vs 15,673 of the BC version
You look at 10k saving
I did not add the duratex ...handles .. connectors ..screws.etc
a CVR D2004 (4ch amp)
Is rated at 3.4kw @4 ohms per output
So you need one amp for 4 cabinets
Using one 18SW115-4 per amp out
If you buy the amp on Amazon is 1400usd
I think getting direct from orient is around 1100... There is a DSP version of it at cost around 100 more but let's assume you will use your existing DSP
Let's say you spend 500 more in paint and hardware so it will be 5,500 for 4 cabinets
And the amp ... That's 1400 more ..6,900
Let's round it to 7k
7k to hit 150dB @30Hz
Is the project feasible ?
With this fi audio driver you can hit 150 with 4 cabs , 10dB more , price difference is around 400 usd between them,
If you factor 4... That's 1600 usd
So to hit 150 with the 15SW115 you will need to double cabs/power to gain 6dB more
That's 8 cabinets total and we still missing 4dB
So with 16 15SW115's you will hit 152dB in a perfect world...
But 16 15SW115 are 683usd times 16 that is
10,936 ... With tax is 11,833!!!
Add 3ply per cabinet..
.that is assuming 80 bucks per ply..240 per cab..times 16...3,840 for wood
Plus 11,833 in driver ..equals
15,673 with the BC
Fi audio...4 drivers ...999x4...4000
4000 + 240ply times 4...equals 960 almost another driver
Basically is like buying 5 drivers ...
5k to have 4 cabs with the FI audio driver
Vs 15,673 of the BC version
You look at 10k saving
I did not add the duratex ...handles .. connectors ..screws.etc
a CVR D2004 (4ch amp)
Is rated at 3.4kw @4 ohms per output
So you need one amp for 4 cabinets
Using one 18SW115-4 per amp out
If you buy the amp on Amazon is 1400usd
I think getting direct from orient is around 1100... There is a DSP version of it at cost around 100 more but let's assume you will use your existing DSP
Let's say you spend 500 more in paint and hardware so it will be 5,500 for 4 cabinets
And the amp ... That's 1400 more ..6,900
Let's round it to 7k
7k to hit 150dB @30Hz
Is the project feasible ?
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If talk about a PA driver, what is important for it and set's it aside from a HIFI or car audio driver?
In most cases the main points are to do high SPL for a long time, with as little room and power needed.
If we talk about 40 years ago, Watt rms was expensive and PA speaker were large builds to have about 10 times the effiency of a HIFI speaker. Which needed horn constructions, making them quite huge for a single driver or two. SPL of 105-107dB/W 1m was a common number giving nice output from "only" 300-400 W amps. There where no closed PA bass cabinets and only few vented constructions.
Over the years amp power has gotten cheaper and cheaper. So the PA driver changed in construction and the cabinets got smaller. No need to get SPL from smart constructions. Not to forget that something like a W-bin could be driven for days at 400-600 Watt, while todays 2000 W and plus driver can not do that without fresh air for cooling. So the whole thing has changed quite drasticaly in the last decades.
With these car stereo drivers you will not get happy inside a PA I fear. They are made for a quick blast. Just a look from the outside shows a quite ignorant design, compared to modern high power speakers. If you want to drive them on constant load, consider water cooling or the magnets will loose their strength.
In most cases the main points are to do high SPL for a long time, with as little room and power needed.
If we talk about 40 years ago, Watt rms was expensive and PA speaker were large builds to have about 10 times the effiency of a HIFI speaker. Which needed horn constructions, making them quite huge for a single driver or two. SPL of 105-107dB/W 1m was a common number giving nice output from "only" 300-400 W amps. There where no closed PA bass cabinets and only few vented constructions.
Over the years amp power has gotten cheaper and cheaper. So the PA driver changed in construction and the cabinets got smaller. No need to get SPL from smart constructions. Not to forget that something like a W-bin could be driven for days at 400-600 Watt, while todays 2000 W and plus driver can not do that without fresh air for cooling. So the whole thing has changed quite drasticaly in the last decades.
With these car stereo drivers you will not get happy inside a PA I fear. They are made for a quick blast. Just a look from the outside shows a quite ignorant design, compared to modern high power speakers. If you want to drive them on constant load, consider water cooling or the magnets will loose their strength.
Lil tip. Sydney summers get only in the low to mid 40s Celsius and wagon bodied SUVs/hatchbacks/estates are common. Cabin temps can get fatal in parked cars
Ever hear about the killer bushfires of 2019? 4000km round trip over 4 days right through that and with the old pro mobile driver pumping. I am a long term taxi driver. A 12hr drive is just a day at work. Your conditions must be atrocious enough to make ours look mild
Please explain this. Some specifics on which pro mobile models prone to this would be a good start. Also, maybe have a go at explaining the longevity of the pro consumer models from most brands in our fairly severe conditions
Automotive drivers have to be designed and manufactured to survive the locked up parking in a vehicle's market, with ours being some of the harshest. The car audio scene is rich and alive here and we aren't knee-deep in burnt out drivers quite yet, What was that you said about ignorant?