Yes, the standard DE900 "full stop", not the TN or another suffixed version. Nice graphs in your post #1816!
Same here. But a little bit of neat sparkling in the UHF does remind us that we are listening to music through a system set-up for HIFI, whilst retaining the benefits of moving a lot of air thanks to the large radiating areas (presence, impact, realism etc).
Why??? I have used 2435's and 2453's on the same waveguide?? They fit just fine. Have used 435Be vs 476Mg on the M2 fit just fine. The 2451 has a different larger bolt pattern. The 2450SL 52 and 52 all the same.
Rob 🙂
Is the TN version not as good as non suffixed version?
Edit: It seems both DE900 and DE900TN are out of production, alternative is DE800 and DE980TN
As mentioned in the review of the 18Sound ND1480be, Crowe said that he used his ES600 horn
https://josephcrowe.com/products/es-600-bi-radial-wood-horn-no-1978
Following the measurements, Crowe also gives his listening impressions of this driver/horn combination.
For the Radian 745neobe, Dickason also ran and posted all of the same measurements, using the B&C ME90 horn, though he apparently ran no listening tests.
Actually, I was rather foolishly hoping that you might have heard both of those beryllium drivers-used with suitable horns and adapters-and therefore could offer your own comparative impressions of how they sound.
Haven’t tried these other versions but there are differences in the construction details. Judge by yourself in the light of the product information sheets. The de900 seems to still be available here and there.
One difference between the two models is that the TN version has a full ( including surround ) titanium diaphragm ( the surround is Mylar on the original de900 version ).
🙂
Finally tried the D2430H in a custom car horn. It’s a sick 1.4” driver that sounds really good with a bump at 9k and will play down to 500hz like a boss.
Really cool driver…
Really cool driver…
I should probably have wrote that it is'nt a ideal match or something to be more clear. Sorry for any misunderstanding🙂
As for fitting physically, with bolt patterns, and phaseplug exiting at the throat etc. same as other JBL designs yes.
I suspect you know the 2435/435 way more intimately then me, as you were involved in a lot of the discussion on LH forums.
They tend to have some quirks on the PT waveguides, M2 etc.
The 2435H is finicky as to what wave guides it works with because the phasing plug is so short. - Courtesy of Doug Button - JBL
Maybe look into the DE780 if one enjoys the DE900.
got to 49.30 in the link below, and you will see where the DE 900 gets most of it's love from 🤔
This is excellent didactic material. Wish there was much more such exchanges/videos.
Interesting discussion. Particularly for me the Beryllium discussions.
I've not tried many compression drivers..
I do however prefer my refurbished (by Vitavox in Bristol ) Vitavox S2s sound to the JBL2435Bes, I also had. Both are 1.5" exit.
No idea why technically 😀
I find the S2s better tonally and they sound faster on complex fast music (Vivaldi violin strings for example).
Have to use the S2s right, and either EQ the 1.7 to 1.9KHz bump, or cross it away (3uF cap method).
I've not tried many compression drivers..
I do however prefer my refurbished (by Vitavox in Bristol ) Vitavox S2s sound to the JBL2435Bes, I also had. Both are 1.5" exit.
No idea why technically 😀
I find the S2s better tonally and they sound faster on complex fast music (Vivaldi violin strings for example).
Have to use the S2s right, and either EQ the 1.7 to 1.9KHz bump, or cross it away (3uF cap method).
It's unfortunate that beryllium drivers are expensive, otherwise there would likely be more feedback about them at threads like this. I've never heard them either and only know of one longtime user who's highly pleased with them, especially with high res source material. He attributes his lasting happiness with the Radian 745neobe (no hardness, fatigue or analytical sound; just "clean") to his perfecting of the required EQ for extending the HF response of that two-way system (TAD 15" woofers in sealed cabinets). He also designed and built the throat adapters for the Athos 4001 horns.
Comparing his Radians to the Yamaha JA6681B, though in AH425 horns, I he described them as "neutral" sounding like his 745neobe, but flat without need of EQ out to ~ 11kHz. I wish I could hear both drivers in 4001 horns playing my some of my favorite music, though less then pristinely recorded.
😀 Not really. Have read his survival guide though.
Got most of my inspiration from I_Should_Coco🙂
I'm revisiting my comparisons between Tractrix 400 and Le Cléac'h 550 horns on the S2s.
I'd like to try a pair of 400 Le Cléac'h - just so damn big. 480mm across🙄
It is so strange to read about all the beryllium hype, while the phase plug gets no attention.
when you say "hype" I am not sure just what you mean? are you suggesting that Be is not a significant improvement over say aluminum diaphragms? clearly being able to push up first resonant modes is a big step forward. I would like to see further research into suspension design/materials and into diaphragm coatings.
This is not easy to answer at all. One should have access to both and measure them in the same horn, with the same equipment and settings. By the available curves one can suspect the Radian of having more small resonances, but phase plug geometry affects the performance a lot, and this it not revealed by these measurements. The output level at high frequencies is very low for the Radian. It may be a poor fit to that horn, but I have not gone into detail to check that. If the exit angle of the Radian is higher than the entry angle of the horn, one can get a suckout in the response. But as I have worked with the 1480Be, I can say that it is a pretty good driver.
I realize my post can be easily misunderstood.
There are three main points that to my opinion should be highlighted:
- Firstly, a pair of 1 inch domes typically contains a couple of Euro worth of diaphragm material. The process of making them is similar to that of making aluminium or titanium domes. I see no reason why every Be dome should be priced several hundred Euro over their aluminium or titanium counterparts.
- Secondly, in some cases, there are other metal domes that perform at least at the same level as their beryllium counterpart. One great example is the Bliesma T34A vs the T34B. Still people go for the beryllium version without hesitation. Some have even described the sound difference. It is like a copy-paste of any other beryllium vs anything else-review. It is like people struggle to listen past the material. A bit like when people are unable to un-hear the "metallic sound" of a metal dome, while the flawed dispersion pattern of a soft dome just gives "soft sound".
- When people test beryllium compression drivers, even 4 inch drivers, where the main break up is well within the audible range, people describes them as having "the same sound as beryllium domes", while small beryllium domes do not ring in within the audible range. They do not have the same type of sound.
So by "hype" I do not mean that beryllium is not a very good material for domes, but unfortunately it is hyped in such a way that many people struggle to judge the sound objectively. It is extremely over priced and at the same time, it is not a free ticket to great sound. But beryllium seems to be a kind of "wow, it is beryllium, I can hear that, it is great, like all beryllium." Just like if all aluminium diaphragms, regardless of shape, size and usage, should sound the same.