Getting back to Iquams question concerning the MW 150 24 supplies, I have a pair of these from a proto F5m I acquired, what would I need in order to use these for the upcoming F5m completion kit. 1st post for a complete noob, doing my best with the seemingly steep learning curve. Be gentle, this will be my first build.
I get that you want to use parts on hand. However, it would be far more simple and safe to just build the linear supply.
If someone has a technical question, and is keen to understand for himself, I will take as much time as I can to explain.
Then next time, he understands for himself and doesn't need to ask again.
If someone is just interested in a quick answer without wanting to understand, then I'll leave it to those "generous" persons to "help" you.
It is precisely this kind of generosity is largely responsible for the rapid decline of technical abilities at this forum in the past years.
My 2 cents.
Patrick
Then next time, he understands for himself and doesn't need to ask again.
If someone is just interested in a quick answer without wanting to understand, then I'll leave it to those "generous" persons to "help" you.
It is precisely this kind of generosity is largely responsible for the rapid decline of technical abilities at this forum in the past years.
My 2 cents.
Patrick
If this is your first build, I'd advocate only doing the way that the person that designed, built, and (I assume) tested the prototype using the supplies you received did it. That way, you know it's exactly as intended.
More to the root of the matter - If you have a working F5m prototype, why build another? If you just want to build one for yourself, then that's awesome. I'd still ask the person that provided the prototype what may have changed between prototype and "production" and if you can/should just wire it identically to the prototype. My GUESS is that it would be the same, but it's always best to be certain.
Certainly respect your opinion and think that your proposed solution is appropriate, I would suggest that at its root this forum and designs are to spread the love of Music, anything beyond that is icing on the cake.
"DIYers are the happiest audiophiles I know, and I
think they are happy because they have greater involvement in audio
than is experienced by consumers. Their enthusiasm is important to
high end audio, and it encourages other audiophiles to explore and
participate."
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Appreciate the replies on using the Meanwells vs the recommended linear. To Itsallinmyhead, I'll take your advice to build it as intended with the linear supply, can't afford to risk damage to my speakers on something I don't comprehend....yet. The proto F5m I have is in a very frugal homemade chassis with equally cheap scavenged parts, I only bought to get a taste of the First Watt magic and see if the low power is sufficient for my 87db speakers in a small room and to research "life after tubes", just can't afford tube costs any longer. Absolutely stunned by the amp.
^ Well, that wasn't my advice.
Rephrased - My advice was:
Ask that person.
BTW - Thanks for posting thoughts on the amp! Can't wait to try it for myself.
Rephrased - My advice was:
- If you received the Meanwell supplies with an F5m prototype, and you want to use those Meanwells with a new build THEN
- I'd assume that the person that provided the prototype along with the supplies knows best how to use them properly, SO
Ask that person.
BTW - Thanks for posting thoughts on the amp! Can't wait to try it for myself.
Decline in technical ability, or increase in accessibility?
Certainly many different goals, groups and purposes being served here.
If the point was to create a place to capture and spread knowledge and enjoyment, mission accomplished.
“Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.”
-Maybe Einstein, paraphrased…but who cares
Certainly many different goals, groups and purposes being served here.
If the point was to create a place to capture and spread knowledge and enjoyment, mission accomplished.
“Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.”
-Maybe Einstein, paraphrased…but who cares
This conversation is diverting off topic, but IMO it's important. It is also ironically appropriate as it occurs in a thread devoted to yet another gift from Nelson Pass.
Data point of one... The main hook that cultivated my interest was the thought and time and Nelson put into describing the circuits he detailed for others. His articles (available at Firstwatt.com) and those of others (Michael Rothacher is just one), have offered insights which are all the more memorable via the satisfaction of actually building something. Over time the projects have become more complex and documentation less explicit as they build upon information given previously. I am grateful for this education and while I am now capable of more challenging builds (thinking of the more densely packed boards like VRDN and the smd examples used by Wayne's BAF2018 line stage), the accompanying concepts are less well articulated. This is in part a necessity but inevitably leads to more questions.
My father was and remains a big influence and his career in electronics spanned early PA systems for post war dance bands to digital design of custom electronics for medical research. He and his `art' has moved on; we see the mass obsolescence of through hole parts and in large part a migration from analog to digital/logic/software driven processes. I have his Avo above my toy bench and hope to get it repaired some day. Being able to learn about how analog circuits work has provided a connection with my dad for which I am deeply grateful, although I feel no compulsion to go back to undergraduate labs for a refresher on the calculus involved.
We noobs are reliant on the good graces of others for guidance and we have an obligation `not to be a burden'. Those kind unpaid teachers amongst us sometimes struggle to articulate their pearls of wisdom at the necessary level. There are a wide range of documented projects and some more involved and its this progression of needs that makes life difficult. In an ideal world there would be a balance between a classroom and a club that caters to the educated few. It's not easy and much credit is due to those who strive to achieve this. Does it makes sense to provide some explicit guidance / ranking of the complexity of projects/sparsity of documentation so as to make it easier for those teachers and students to play in the areas where they can gain most enjoyment?
Data point of one... The main hook that cultivated my interest was the thought and time and Nelson put into describing the circuits he detailed for others. His articles (available at Firstwatt.com) and those of others (Michael Rothacher is just one), have offered insights which are all the more memorable via the satisfaction of actually building something. Over time the projects have become more complex and documentation less explicit as they build upon information given previously. I am grateful for this education and while I am now capable of more challenging builds (thinking of the more densely packed boards like VRDN and the smd examples used by Wayne's BAF2018 line stage), the accompanying concepts are less well articulated. This is in part a necessity but inevitably leads to more questions.
My father was and remains a big influence and his career in electronics spanned early PA systems for post war dance bands to digital design of custom electronics for medical research. He and his `art' has moved on; we see the mass obsolescence of through hole parts and in large part a migration from analog to digital/logic/software driven processes. I have his Avo above my toy bench and hope to get it repaired some day. Being able to learn about how analog circuits work has provided a connection with my dad for which I am deeply grateful, although I feel no compulsion to go back to undergraduate labs for a refresher on the calculus involved.
We noobs are reliant on the good graces of others for guidance and we have an obligation `not to be a burden'. Those kind unpaid teachers amongst us sometimes struggle to articulate their pearls of wisdom at the necessary level. There are a wide range of documented projects and some more involved and its this progression of needs that makes life difficult. In an ideal world there would be a balance between a classroom and a club that caters to the educated few. It's not easy and much credit is due to those who strive to achieve this. Does it makes sense to provide some explicit guidance / ranking of the complexity of projects/sparsity of documentation so as to make it easier for those teachers and students to play in the areas where they can gain most enjoyment?
@BeardyWan
I vote that a moderator (@6L6 maybe) move your post (and any others necessary ) to another thread. I know I have more to say, but don't want clog up this thread.
I vote that a moderator (@6L6 maybe) move your post (and any others necessary ) to another thread. I know I have more to say, but don't want clog up this thread.
Eh. It’s going to be a bit before the kits hit the store, might as well have it out now...
Let me offer my own two cents;
A bit of background, I’m a professional pilot, I’ve been flying for about 33yr, have been a current Flight Instructor since I was 21yr old, am currently the Chief Pilot of a private jet operation, and have a very broad range of experience.
One day not long ago I flew into a small airport in New Mexico, and had to sit around and wait for the passengers to be done with whatever they were doing. I think it was only 4-5hr. There were a couple of (older) guys who flew thier aircraft in, they were based there and I struck up a conversation. One gentleman had a beautiful and quite old Piper Cub (a Tri-Pacer, actually, but that’s not particularly important to the story) that was in survivor condition, with original instrumentation and some newer radios, etc... the 2nd guy had a homebuilt gyrocopter that looked straight out of a James Bond movie.
The aircraft were neat and the gentlemen were friendly and like anybody in a hobby when you find an interested person, the conversation got going and was very enjoyable.
At some point when talking with these guys I was overcome with a very interesting and fascinating realization - they didn't know very much about aviation...
… but this was in comparison to my knowledge and experience.
And then I started intently listening and asking quiet and pointed questions for better understanding of their experience/education/knowledge in aviation, which better helped me understand this.
It was obvious to me that they absolutely had enough and sufficient experience and knowledge to operate safely and efficiently in their normal operations, and had proper understanding to look in the proper places if they needed information past what they normally do.
But in comparison to my knowledge/education/experience, it was a small fraction of my own. Will I be extra careful flying into thier airport because these guys are operating there? No, they know what to do. Could they hop into the jet and fly it or even be helpful? No, but that’s not what they do or need, even though it’s both aviation. There’s a lot of different levels in any knowledge.
So how does one move forward? How do we all integrate the various knowledges and experiences into our hobby?
You don't need to know how it works to put it together. (Although please attempt to correlate the schematic to the PCB…)
You dont need to know how to design anything to be in this hobby.
As for levels of help/explanation/assistance, I can only speak for myself - and in this arena I will be the first to admit that my overall electronics knowledge is significantly closer to the guys with the home built gyrocopter than a professional in the good part of his career… but…
- If you are willing to be interested and learn, I’m going to help.
- If you are a complete beginner, we’re going to help.
- If you are demanding an answer, I’m going to steer some questions to try to get you to take a step to help yourself first, but will still move in the direction of assisting you. (Unless you are a jerk, but that’s obvious, and very rare on this forum…)
- If you are trying to understand more advanced concepts, please realize that you might let the smoke out on the journey.
Now specific to skill levels and such, there is a desire for more full kits than can be realized. They are significantly more work to make than most people think, and although it greatly simplifies the build process, at some point the kits need to cater to the true beginners, and they use this as a stepping stone to go further down the path of building on their own. It‘s an interesting balance, of course, as the full kits is where a LOT of new people enter the hobby. So there actually should be more… but again, at some point you need to take a few steps yourself.
Documentation is a huge effort, and everybody here is a volunteer. Please remember that.
As for trying to do something significantly more complicated, well, that’s what the forum is ultimately for.. lots of people who can give great information, and a huge repository of information is already here, and google can find it a lot of the time. The community is the thing.
I have always found this group of people to be willing to learn, and be willing to try, if given the right encouragement. Also, it’s paramount to remember that when somebody is here with a project that isn’t working, they are discouraged and frustrated and just want to get it going, and sometimes they don't even know what to ask for.
So approach this as a group effort of supporting the people who are here, regardless of their skill and knowledge. It’s the only way to keep the community going.
Let me offer my own two cents;
A bit of background, I’m a professional pilot, I’ve been flying for about 33yr, have been a current Flight Instructor since I was 21yr old, am currently the Chief Pilot of a private jet operation, and have a very broad range of experience.
One day not long ago I flew into a small airport in New Mexico, and had to sit around and wait for the passengers to be done with whatever they were doing. I think it was only 4-5hr. There were a couple of (older) guys who flew thier aircraft in, they were based there and I struck up a conversation. One gentleman had a beautiful and quite old Piper Cub (a Tri-Pacer, actually, but that’s not particularly important to the story) that was in survivor condition, with original instrumentation and some newer radios, etc... the 2nd guy had a homebuilt gyrocopter that looked straight out of a James Bond movie.
The aircraft were neat and the gentlemen were friendly and like anybody in a hobby when you find an interested person, the conversation got going and was very enjoyable.
At some point when talking with these guys I was overcome with a very interesting and fascinating realization - they didn't know very much about aviation...
… but this was in comparison to my knowledge and experience.
And then I started intently listening and asking quiet and pointed questions for better understanding of their experience/education/knowledge in aviation, which better helped me understand this.
It was obvious to me that they absolutely had enough and sufficient experience and knowledge to operate safely and efficiently in their normal operations, and had proper understanding to look in the proper places if they needed information past what they normally do.
But in comparison to my knowledge/education/experience, it was a small fraction of my own. Will I be extra careful flying into thier airport because these guys are operating there? No, they know what to do. Could they hop into the jet and fly it or even be helpful? No, but that’s not what they do or need, even though it’s both aviation. There’s a lot of different levels in any knowledge.
So how does one move forward? How do we all integrate the various knowledges and experiences into our hobby?
You don't need to know how it works to put it together. (Although please attempt to correlate the schematic to the PCB…)
You dont need to know how to design anything to be in this hobby.
As for levels of help/explanation/assistance, I can only speak for myself - and in this arena I will be the first to admit that my overall electronics knowledge is significantly closer to the guys with the home built gyrocopter than a professional in the good part of his career… but…
- If you are willing to be interested and learn, I’m going to help.
- If you are a complete beginner, we’re going to help.
- If you are demanding an answer, I’m going to steer some questions to try to get you to take a step to help yourself first, but will still move in the direction of assisting you. (Unless you are a jerk, but that’s obvious, and very rare on this forum…)
- If you are trying to understand more advanced concepts, please realize that you might let the smoke out on the journey.
Now specific to skill levels and such, there is a desire for more full kits than can be realized. They are significantly more work to make than most people think, and although it greatly simplifies the build process, at some point the kits need to cater to the true beginners, and they use this as a stepping stone to go further down the path of building on their own. It‘s an interesting balance, of course, as the full kits is where a LOT of new people enter the hobby. So there actually should be more… but again, at some point you need to take a few steps yourself.
Documentation is a huge effort, and everybody here is a volunteer. Please remember that.
As for trying to do something significantly more complicated, well, that’s what the forum is ultimately for.. lots of people who can give great information, and a huge repository of information is already here, and google can find it a lot of the time. The community is the thing.
I have always found this group of people to be willing to learn, and be willing to try, if given the right encouragement. Also, it’s paramount to remember that when somebody is here with a project that isn’t working, they are discouraged and frustrated and just want to get it going, and sometimes they don't even know what to ask for.
So approach this as a group effort of supporting the people who are here, regardless of their skill and knowledge. It’s the only way to keep the community going.
one, day, hope lateeeeeeeeeeeee, when you're finished with commercial flying, doing that for personal pleasure with own skysoaringapparatus, start writing books
well, if managing private Piloting School leave you with some free time