Hi all.
I have a pair of Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus speakers and two of their bass woofers are very bad-looking, as you can see in this picture:
That's the reason I would really like to replace these woofers, but it's very difficult to get the exact same model of them in the market. The original model is this:
As you can see, the woofer's impedance is 8 Ohms, because it works in parallel with the second woofer existing in each speaker.
So I would like to get suggestions of 8 Ohm woofers from other brands to replace these 6,5" woofers. They can be 6,5 or 7-inch and don't have to keep the exact same sonic characteristics of the original woofers. In fact I would be happy if the new woofers could give a more "punchy bass" to the speakers.
Suggestions are very welcome.
Demetrio.
I have a pair of Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus speakers and two of their bass woofers are very bad-looking, as you can see in this picture:
That's the reason I would really like to replace these woofers, but it's very difficult to get the exact same model of them in the market. The original model is this:
As you can see, the woofer's impedance is 8 Ohms, because it works in parallel with the second woofer existing in each speaker.
So I would like to get suggestions of 8 Ohm woofers from other brands to replace these 6,5" woofers. They can be 6,5 or 7-inch and don't have to keep the exact same sonic characteristics of the original woofers. In fact I would be happy if the new woofers could give a more "punchy bass" to the speakers.
Suggestions are very welcome.
Demetrio.
That's obviously a Seas driver. You probably know that. So I'd be looking at a new CA18 and see how it sounds.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ige-ca18rly-h1217-7-coated-paper-cone-woofer/
Sharing a state side link even if only to minimise the postal miles! Maybe they'll send to Brazil
Atleast if you stick to a Seas with the same basket , they will fit without need for woodwork.
Sharing a state side link even if only to minimise the postal miles! Maybe they'll send to Brazil
Atleast if you stick to a Seas with the same basket , they will fit without need for woodwork.
I can't see from the photo what is wrong with those original drive units? If it's just the surround that should be fixable.
For what you want there is a straight way to do it. All the software you need is free.
Independend whether you want to restore them to original condition or modify them.
As you have two working units in the other box, I would measure the TSP parameter first. All you need beside from a wire to your soundcard is a small resistor, a multimeter and an precise scale to measure an amount of 10 Gramms blue tac or any other sticky, elastic compound.
Then follow any ot the many tutorials you can find online.
Now you have the speaker TSP and have to make a coarse calculation of the volume they have in your SF speaker cabinet. Next measure diameter and length of the pot.
Put the TSP values in some simulation like winISD, usind two speakers in parallel.
Now you can see what frequency response the basic speaker will have. Independent from your room.
You got to understand, speaker in a defined volume results in a response. This is the real output the speaker has, something else than what you hear, as this is the combination of speaker and room.
I have read some reviews of the 2005-2007 SF Grand Piano Domus. It is said to have some kind of bloated bass response if you read between the lines.
There are some options to change this behavior, but if you want to do it right you need these measurements first.
Anything else is experimenting without a clue what to do.
I noticed extra magnets glued to the magnets of the bass chassis which should play up to 400 Hz. This may be a try to correct a failed tuning.
Just from a first view on speaker, chassis and (the very large) port, I would expect it to have a much too strong bass output around maybe 70 Hz. This is just a guess, but the combination seems to be a too small volume for the chassis with a too high tuning of the vented enclosure.
There is an alternative to fix your problems I may mention. This might be much better than the conventional approach. This would be to divide the crossover and drive the the bass chassis from a separate amp with a DSP. Combined with new chassis in both cabinets and some modification of the port. Can be done without changing the optics.
Independend whether you want to restore them to original condition or modify them.
As you have two working units in the other box, I would measure the TSP parameter first. All you need beside from a wire to your soundcard is a small resistor, a multimeter and an precise scale to measure an amount of 10 Gramms blue tac or any other sticky, elastic compound.
Then follow any ot the many tutorials you can find online.
Now you have the speaker TSP and have to make a coarse calculation of the volume they have in your SF speaker cabinet. Next measure diameter and length of the pot.
Put the TSP values in some simulation like winISD, usind two speakers in parallel.
Now you can see what frequency response the basic speaker will have. Independent from your room.
You got to understand, speaker in a defined volume results in a response. This is the real output the speaker has, something else than what you hear, as this is the combination of speaker and room.
I have read some reviews of the 2005-2007 SF Grand Piano Domus. It is said to have some kind of bloated bass response if you read between the lines.
There are some options to change this behavior, but if you want to do it right you need these measurements first.
Anything else is experimenting without a clue what to do.
I noticed extra magnets glued to the magnets of the bass chassis which should play up to 400 Hz. This may be a try to correct a failed tuning.
Just from a first view on speaker, chassis and (the very large) port, I would expect it to have a much too strong bass output around maybe 70 Hz. This is just a guess, but the combination seems to be a too small volume for the chassis with a too high tuning of the vented enclosure.
There is an alternative to fix your problems I may mention. This might be much better than the conventional approach. This would be to divide the crossover and drive the the bass chassis from a separate amp with a DSP. Combined with new chassis in both cabinets and some modification of the port. Can be done without changing the optics.
I suggest you like the high-mid reproduction of these speakers, as changing the bass would only affect them up to 400 Hz. The overly presend volume of a voice may be less with another tune/ chassis, the one note, "humming" bass with rock/pop can be reduced while keeping the real low notes. Hard to explain...
A good candidate for your SF could be the SEAS CA18RNX - H1215-08
better for tight, bass than the 18RLY.
Please try to find out what volume the 2 bass drivers have inside your cabinet, that way one can better estimate what chassis might fit.
You don't have to be exact to the litre, just roughly measure and calculate it.
As you would need 4 of them, this may be a serious investment. They are about 115 € each in France
https://www.soundimports.eu/de/seas-ca18rnx.html?id=192471660
I have no idea what price they charge in Brasil. May be more than the whole pair is worth used.
As far as I know, Selenium, now owned by JBL, produces chassis in Brasil, . If those are aviable locally, there would be an option to find something without high transport and taxes. Selenium makes some very good drivers, maybe for HIFI, too. It is all about the volume inside and what you can source...
If a replacement driver doesn't fit the original hole in the cabinet, a larger one could be placed on top of the leather instead of the recess. I do not know whether this may be acceptable for you, the grill might not fit any more. Sound wise this doesn't matter for the low frequency range.
I found some quite logical reviews and reports about your speakers which all point into the same direction. They seem to sound best at low volume with instrumental, not too dynamic music. Like a female voice and a guitar. Not made for Rock, Pop, Techno modern stuff or large orchestra.
To tell the truth about these speakers, the chassis used are quite cheap, compared to the price of the pair when new. Sonus Faber has given great attention to good, expensive look, but technically they are not really refined, may be because they are their entry level line. In 2010 the cost for the electrical parts (chassis, wire, crossover) must have been less than 200€ each, with a retail price of 2800€ for the pair. In DIYS these parts would have been good, basic quality level. This doesn´t mean they are bad parts in any way, in fact you find such components even in most expensive brands. So expect nothing magical. Just a quite good, entryline speaker from a audiophile point of view.
Of course much better than all the worthless stuff from China that is sold to the average citizen on Wall Mart, electronic discouters or the internet, even with a Bose, JBL or other known brands label glued on. Such speaker of the same size as yours have components worth less than 20 US$... the worthless junk that kills out planet.
A good candidate for your SF could be the SEAS CA18RNX - H1215-08
better for tight, bass than the 18RLY.
Please try to find out what volume the 2 bass drivers have inside your cabinet, that way one can better estimate what chassis might fit.
You don't have to be exact to the litre, just roughly measure and calculate it.
As you would need 4 of them, this may be a serious investment. They are about 115 € each in France
https://www.soundimports.eu/de/seas-ca18rnx.html?id=192471660
I have no idea what price they charge in Brasil. May be more than the whole pair is worth used.
As far as I know, Selenium, now owned by JBL, produces chassis in Brasil, . If those are aviable locally, there would be an option to find something without high transport and taxes. Selenium makes some very good drivers, maybe for HIFI, too. It is all about the volume inside and what you can source...
If a replacement driver doesn't fit the original hole in the cabinet, a larger one could be placed on top of the leather instead of the recess. I do not know whether this may be acceptable for you, the grill might not fit any more. Sound wise this doesn't matter for the low frequency range.
I found some quite logical reviews and reports about your speakers which all point into the same direction. They seem to sound best at low volume with instrumental, not too dynamic music. Like a female voice and a guitar. Not made for Rock, Pop, Techno modern stuff or large orchestra.
To tell the truth about these speakers, the chassis used are quite cheap, compared to the price of the pair when new. Sonus Faber has given great attention to good, expensive look, but technically they are not really refined, may be because they are their entry level line. In 2010 the cost for the electrical parts (chassis, wire, crossover) must have been less than 200€ each, with a retail price of 2800€ for the pair. In DIYS these parts would have been good, basic quality level. This doesn´t mean they are bad parts in any way, in fact you find such components even in most expensive brands. So expect nothing magical. Just a quite good, entryline speaker from a audiophile point of view.
Of course much better than all the worthless stuff from China that is sold to the average citizen on Wall Mart, electronic discouters or the internet, even with a Bose, JBL or other known brands label glued on. Such speaker of the same size as yours have components worth less than 20 US$... the worthless junk that kills out planet.
I second to that. If the surround got loose, brittle or stiff, repair is the first option. It’s quite easy. Get new surrounds and glue from eBay, https://www.repairyourspeakers.com/ or https://speakerrepairshop.nl/, follow instructions and get them working again.
I have the strong feeling the owner of the speakers is not satisfied with the way the bass performs. These model is known to be bloated in the upper bass region, making it unpleasant to listen to some music styles.
If the chassis are only dirty, simple external reconditioning should be enough. I don't even see a need to install new surrounds. As the owner is not deep in speaker building and even less in speaker tuning, he may not know that there are other way to improve them in his sense.
Damping the inside and making the vent longer and /or thinner could already make him quite happy, at very low cost.
If the chassis are only dirty, simple external reconditioning should be enough. I don't even see a need to install new surrounds. As the owner is not deep in speaker building and even less in speaker tuning, he may not know that there are other way to improve them in his sense.
Damping the inside and making the vent longer and /or thinner could already make him quite happy, at very low cost.
Mediocre upper bass seldom is caused by wrong bass alignments, these mainly ruin low bass up to 60-80Hz. Bad crossover design, wrong level adjustment or enclosure problems cause lousy upper bass.
Bass performance issue : A problem with amplification or room ?
I can't imagine Sonus Faber and bad design at this price point. The bass is extended by a PR.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/sonus-faber-concerto-grand-piano-loudspeaker-measurements
I can't imagine Sonus Faber and bad design at this price point. The bass is extended by a PR.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/sonus-faber-concerto-grand-piano-loudspeaker-measurements
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You are right. The room always is in the equation of course.
If replacing, the H1456 and H1571 are probably better options than the H1215. Superior midrange, especially the latter.
If replacing, the H1456 and H1571 are probably better options than the H1215. Superior midrange, especially the latter.
Yes, I did some research on this. Not economically viable to repair them here in Brazil though.
Ok Sorry not the same speaker Concerto and Domus.
Not sure if you use a standard prestige instead of OEM driver you will have not crossover work.
Very tricky if you don't have parameters of the OEM drivers. Rebuild this high end speaker with other driver is a complete redesign. Possible to do it properly because alternative drivers with the same size exists but a lot of works.
For what I know of seas driver, not sure you heard a big difference in the midrange in the seas prestige series. Frankly go to an other speaker with excel version of these 6.5" drivers. See Troëls CNO,CNO-2.5,CNO-grande : expensive but you will have a clear difference in the sound 🙂.
Not sure if you use a standard prestige instead of OEM driver you will have not crossover work.
Very tricky if you don't have parameters of the OEM drivers. Rebuild this high end speaker with other driver is a complete redesign. Possible to do it properly because alternative drivers with the same size exists but a lot of works.
For what I know of seas driver, not sure you heard a big difference in the midrange in the seas prestige series. Frankly go to an other speaker with excel version of these 6.5" drivers. See Troëls CNO,CNO-2.5,CNO-grande : expensive but you will have a clear difference in the sound 🙂.
Just for information of you all, I've replaced one of my SF woofers (the ugliest one) with a Focal woofer from the Electra line, just for test, and I do like what I hear.
But that's just for test, because I need to reinstal the Focal woofer back in the Focal speaker at some moment.
But that's just for test, because I need to reinstal the Focal woofer back in the Focal speaker at some moment.
Yes, I'm aware of that.
And if you are curious to know my impressions with the Focal woofer in my SF, my feeling is that I got better bass with it.
I'm that sort of Rock/Fusion/Pop fan in general, so I like a more proeminent bass. And the Focal woofer brought that.
And if you are curious to know my impressions with the Focal woofer in my SF, my feeling is that I got better bass with it.
I'm that sort of Rock/Fusion/Pop fan in general, so I like a more proeminent bass. And the Focal woofer brought that.
I understand that it is quite simple and easy for you all, European and US residents, to change equipments at any moment you desire (speakers, amplifiers, etc).
But unfortunately that's not the case for Brazilian residents.
For starters, import duties are 100% here. Charged the total paid, product+shipping.
High exchange rate is another problem. So are the high shipment duties too.
And it gets a lot worse when lefty-wing politicians are in the government, as it is the case of Brazil at the moment.
So the fact is that, generally speaking, only rich people can afford brandnew equipments here.
For the rest, mere mortals, the most viable solution is try to repair his old equipments.
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