More likely they wanted to increase sensitivity and decrease Qts for some reason. From reading the review and the old thread, these don't look like great speakers and I'd also probably just get the wipes, clean up the drivers all shiny, then sell them.
The extra bucking magnets on speaker drivers were there to contain the magnetic field of the speaker so that the field would not distort the picture of a color CRT. Today, a magnet near an LCD display is no longer a problem, making such magnets totally unnecessary.
I don't consider the SF Grand Piano Domus a weak speaker at all. The midrange sounds absolutely wonderful on this speaker.
Reminds me the Cremonas a lot. 👍
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You are wrong. These magnets do change the TSP parameter of the driver. Anyway, not that much to notice without measureing.
The magnetic field get's weaker with distance by the 3rd power. There is no sense in shielding a stereo pair or rear speaker, only a center needs it.
I think you still have not understood that the resonse of a woofer can be predicted 100% if you know the relevant data.
You will gain nothing from simply changing a speaker.
To say it loud and clear: If you find a speaker that will improve the bass, the crossover will not fit any more.
Clean up and selling may be the best option if you don't want to dig into the cause for the messed up bass response. You will not get 500$/€ more in a resale just for better looking chassis that still do not perform as one would expect from such an expensive speaker.
The magnetic field get's weaker with distance by the 3rd power. There is no sense in shielding a stereo pair or rear speaker, only a center needs it.
I think you still have not understood that the resonse of a woofer can be predicted 100% if you know the relevant data.
You will gain nothing from simply changing a speaker.
To say it loud and clear: If you find a speaker that will improve the bass, the crossover will not fit any more.
Clean up and selling may be the best option if you don't want to dig into the cause for the messed up bass response. You will not get 500$/€ more in a resale just for better looking chassis that still do not perform as one would expect from such an expensive speaker.
As yet we don’t have a clue why the TS dislikes the bass. Could be the room interacting. I personally never have heard a stereo speaker system not to be room dependent, not needing placement optimization and not lacking some response quality due to room modes.
So while changing bass units is pointless, at least according to some of us, the TS seems to have made his mind up. I think he is in his own right, and at the same time, I could not give him good advice but one, since his taste has entered the equation. And that is: go buy those replacement units and experiment. You’ll learn from it at best and you’ll experience a change at worst. And for that last case, since your brain will tell you so, you will probably be happy with that change.
So while changing bass units is pointless, at least according to some of us, the TS seems to have made his mind up. I think he is in his own right, and at the same time, I could not give him good advice but one, since his taste has entered the equation. And that is: go buy those replacement units and experiment. You’ll learn from it at best and you’ll experience a change at worst. And for that last case, since your brain will tell you so, you will probably be happy with that change.
The bass problems of this speaker are well documented. Independend of rooms, from different sources.
It has a huge 95 Hz peak and then has a steep decline. The response above this bass peak has huge ups and downs too.
The crossover is very strange, to say it friendly. It includes some obvious mistakes in crossover construction, that make bass and mid chassis peak at an undesired frequency. An objective example of a very expensive, messed up high end speaker construction.
The problem in this thread is, the starter does not really express what he wants. Seems he urgently wants new woofer's, but the real reasons are unknown. They are a little dirty, but that could be fixed at near to zero cost. Real improvements in sound can not be made without some changes in the crossover and tune of the cabinet. This seems something he doesn't want to perform.
As he has owned some fine Dynaudio speaker before the Sonus Faber, he may not belive that such expensive speaker can really sound so wrong as they do. So he may look for a magic bullet to fix them. Like just changing two chassis...
Here is a whole thread with measurements from different sources that show the problem. Sadly, it ends without any final measurements of the modified speaker, seems the starter just tanked when they worked for him.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/sonus-faber-grand-piano-domus.285171/
It has a huge 95 Hz peak and then has a steep decline. The response above this bass peak has huge ups and downs too.
The crossover is very strange, to say it friendly. It includes some obvious mistakes in crossover construction, that make bass and mid chassis peak at an undesired frequency. An objective example of a very expensive, messed up high end speaker construction.
The problem in this thread is, the starter does not really express what he wants. Seems he urgently wants new woofer's, but the real reasons are unknown. They are a little dirty, but that could be fixed at near to zero cost. Real improvements in sound can not be made without some changes in the crossover and tune of the cabinet. This seems something he doesn't want to perform.
As he has owned some fine Dynaudio speaker before the Sonus Faber, he may not belive that such expensive speaker can really sound so wrong as they do. So he may look for a magic bullet to fix them. Like just changing two chassis...
Here is a whole thread with measurements from different sources that show the problem. Sadly, it ends without any final measurements of the modified speaker, seems the starter just tanked when they worked for him.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/sonus-faber-grand-piano-domus.285171/
I don't see any issues here. OP is into making changes and this is the drive behind it. To define reasons more precise, would seem counterproductive
and too personal. I'd keep the SF cabinets at all times and fix the speaker should it ever need one. It is a nice piece of a furniture not so
easily manufactured in a DIY manner.
and too personal. I'd keep the SF cabinets at all times and fix the speaker should it ever need one. It is a nice piece of a furniture not so
easily manufactured in a DIY manner.
Obviously. Seems a commercial tuning to me. And the overal response, well, I’d be ashamed if one of my designs would show such a mountainous landscape.
A longer port or dismissing it altogether (use a towel and stuff it) might help at the low end. But to be more certain, we’d need impedance measurements and internal box volume.
I guess that my "not-any-good English" took to some misunderstanding here.
I did not say that the SF bass is deficient at all. In fact, my SF speakers sound just like all the other SF speakers I have heard before, in the bass department.
Yes, I had the chance of listening to other SF speakers in the past, more specifically Cremona M and Liuto, and both sounded just like my Grand Piano Domus sounds in the bass. So this seems to be the Sonus Faber way of reproducing bass. Their more proeminent charactristic seems be great midrange and "behaved bass" reproduction. That's it.
What I meant to say over this thread is that, being that sort of Rock/Fusion/Pop fan myself, I like to hear that kind of "thundering bass", like I used to hear from some of my previous Dynaudio speakers, for example. But I am totally aware that "thundering bass" is not definitelly the sort of bass I will hear coming from SF speakers (at least not from these I know - Cremona, Liuto and Grand Piano Domus).
And I can live with that, no problema at all. In fact, the reason I started this thread was not to complain about bass reproduction from my speakers, but to get suggestions of new drivers to replace the bass woofers of my speakers, just because they look awful. That's it.
So, to avoid other misunderstandings, let's forget any punctual complaint I may have said about bass reproduction from my speakers (since I am aware this is a characteristic of them) and focus on the key points I wanted to discuss. Please.
At this point I would like to say:
1 - I enjoy the way my speakers sound at all, with great midrange and sound detail, so I don't want to sell them and buy another speaker for now;
2 - I'm starting considering the idea of repairing the surrounds of the bass woofers.
Thanks.
I did not say that the SF bass is deficient at all. In fact, my SF speakers sound just like all the other SF speakers I have heard before, in the bass department.
Yes, I had the chance of listening to other SF speakers in the past, more specifically Cremona M and Liuto, and both sounded just like my Grand Piano Domus sounds in the bass. So this seems to be the Sonus Faber way of reproducing bass. Their more proeminent charactristic seems be great midrange and "behaved bass" reproduction. That's it.
What I meant to say over this thread is that, being that sort of Rock/Fusion/Pop fan myself, I like to hear that kind of "thundering bass", like I used to hear from some of my previous Dynaudio speakers, for example. But I am totally aware that "thundering bass" is not definitelly the sort of bass I will hear coming from SF speakers (at least not from these I know - Cremona, Liuto and Grand Piano Domus).
And I can live with that, no problema at all. In fact, the reason I started this thread was not to complain about bass reproduction from my speakers, but to get suggestions of new drivers to replace the bass woofers of my speakers, just because they look awful. That's it.
So, to avoid other misunderstandings, let's forget any punctual complaint I may have said about bass reproduction from my speakers (since I am aware this is a characteristic of them) and focus on the key points I wanted to discuss. Please.
At this point I would like to say:
1 - I enjoy the way my speakers sound at all, with great midrange and sound detail, so I don't want to sell them and buy another speaker for now;
2 - I'm starting considering the idea of repairing the surrounds of the bass woofers.
Thanks.
I don't know what kind of products are aviable on your local market. I read someone recommending color for car bumper to be quite good in making brownish grey surrounds black again. This special, thin and elastic ink comes in different forms, with some kind of sponge to apply it.
Before making your chassis even worse by changing the Seas component to some unknown foam or rupper ringn, that may be worth a try.
Dynaudio speaker are no bass monster, but usually quite linear. A good reverence to judge other speaker. The Dynaudio and Seas chassis are of compareable, high quality. They just have to be installed and tuned in the right way. A good speaker can play any kind of music.
The modifications that were made in the other thread, to the SF Domus, are exactly what they should have been from the beginning.
There is no "special magic" or "house sound" in making a speaker resonse as these are. Even the very optimistic ultimat AV showed this ridiculous response. From a technical point of view, the capacitors in the crossover are much to large and make for the humps anyone can see.
Someone did not understand what he was doing. It is quite easy and needs even less parts, to make these chassis perform more linear. Someone wanted a certain topology at any price or make the design look very complicated.
Before making your chassis even worse by changing the Seas component to some unknown foam or rupper ringn, that may be worth a try.
Dynaudio speaker are no bass monster, but usually quite linear. A good reverence to judge other speaker. The Dynaudio and Seas chassis are of compareable, high quality. They just have to be installed and tuned in the right way. A good speaker can play any kind of music.
The modifications that were made in the other thread, to the SF Domus, are exactly what they should have been from the beginning.
There is no "special magic" or "house sound" in making a speaker resonse as these are. Even the very optimistic ultimat AV showed this ridiculous response. From a technical point of view, the capacitors in the crossover are much to large and make for the humps anyone can see.
Someone did not understand what he was doing. It is quite easy and needs even less parts, to make these chassis perform more linear. Someone wanted a certain topology at any price or make the design look very complicated.
So I have just bought new surrounds.
A month or so to receive them...
Meanwhile, what's the best glue I should buy to fix them?
The easiest to use, if possible. 🙂
A month or so to receive them...
Meanwhile, what's the best glue I should buy to fix them?
The easiest to use, if possible. 🙂
Reconing is a very usual task with PA drivers, but only changing the surround is a much more delicate job with small high end HIFI chassis.
You should use some glue specified by the replacement surround supplier. This should be your first source of information.
An even more interesting question is how to clean up the driver for installation of a new surround, without destroying anything. If this is not made in a perfect way, the whole operation will not work out well. For 4 driver of this size, an hour each, just for cleaning, would be my estimate. With clean, this means absolutely nothing left, no parts of the surround, no spot of glue! While cleaning, be sure to prevent any debris enter the air gap through the open phase plug.
The contact patch to the aluminum basket is quite easy to do, as you can mechanically scrape off anything, but the cone is more diffilcult. If you just rip off the surround, you will harm the paper, because the glue is stronger than paper and foam.
My first try would allways be with a heat gun, careful of course, so you don't ignite the cone. If you are lucky the glue will get liquid and leave a nice surface for a new connection. If that doesn't work you may try a solvent like acetone or concentrated alcohol. The glue on the basket may not be the same as the one used at the cone.
Now glue. This is an endless story. Today even airplanes are glued together.
Concerning glue all options are on the table, depending on the new surrounds material.
If it is sensitive to solvent, only 2-component or water based /hardening are an option. Usual water based will only work if one sides is porous and lets water evaborate.
Contact glue is nothing you should use if you try positioning by hand, as you can not correct anything. Most are solvent based anyway.
Non foaming PU glue may be good option, but hard to pick the right one and get small amounts.
There are a a lot of specilized glues around, like the ones made for car wind screens, which dry by taking water from the air.
I usually take off the dust cab, yours don't have one. If you can place a piece of flexible plastic in the air gap, this centers the voice coil. I would use this option, otherwise you run into the problem of a scraping voice coil quite sure. This problem is called rub and buzz.
Even if you have the voicecoil fixated, don't put any tension on the new surround while glueing it. The only way to repair such a problem later, is repeating the whole process with a new part.
If you are new to technical glueing, the user manual should be followed. If it say's let dry for 24 hours, don't do "only a short test" after an hour.
You should use some glue specified by the replacement surround supplier. This should be your first source of information.
An even more interesting question is how to clean up the driver for installation of a new surround, without destroying anything. If this is not made in a perfect way, the whole operation will not work out well. For 4 driver of this size, an hour each, just for cleaning, would be my estimate. With clean, this means absolutely nothing left, no parts of the surround, no spot of glue! While cleaning, be sure to prevent any debris enter the air gap through the open phase plug.
The contact patch to the aluminum basket is quite easy to do, as you can mechanically scrape off anything, but the cone is more diffilcult. If you just rip off the surround, you will harm the paper, because the glue is stronger than paper and foam.
My first try would allways be with a heat gun, careful of course, so you don't ignite the cone. If you are lucky the glue will get liquid and leave a nice surface for a new connection. If that doesn't work you may try a solvent like acetone or concentrated alcohol. The glue on the basket may not be the same as the one used at the cone.
Now glue. This is an endless story. Today even airplanes are glued together.
Concerning glue all options are on the table, depending on the new surrounds material.
If it is sensitive to solvent, only 2-component or water based /hardening are an option. Usual water based will only work if one sides is porous and lets water evaborate.
Contact glue is nothing you should use if you try positioning by hand, as you can not correct anything. Most are solvent based anyway.
Non foaming PU glue may be good option, but hard to pick the right one and get small amounts.
There are a a lot of specilized glues around, like the ones made for car wind screens, which dry by taking water from the air.
I usually take off the dust cab, yours don't have one. If you can place a piece of flexible plastic in the air gap, this centers the voice coil. I would use this option, otherwise you run into the problem of a scraping voice coil quite sure. This problem is called rub and buzz.
Even if you have the voicecoil fixated, don't put any tension on the new surround while glueing it. The only way to repair such a problem later, is repeating the whole process with a new part.
If you are new to technical glueing, the user manual should be followed. If it say's let dry for 24 hours, don't do "only a short test" after an hour.
I haven't read all the posts of this thread > but going back to the beginning ...
This is a low cost and good quality replacement:
https://www.google.com/search?q=cw2...YxwEYrwHCAgQQABgewgIGEAAYBRge&sclient=gws-wiz
This is a low cost and good quality replacement:
https://www.google.com/search?q=cw2...YxwEYrwHCAgQQABgewgIGEAAYBRge&sclient=gws-wiz