Not necessarily more bass, but more bass cone area can improve the midrange by reducing bass harmonics which can effect the midrange. More cone area reduces excursion and results in less modulation of the magnet strength and suspension stiffness. This modulation affects harmonic distortion.
When working with the AdvanTech, how does it accept glue?
I went and looked at some for a build the other night and it seems to have a slick waterproofing finish on it. Does glue stick to this well? Or, should I run a palm sander on the areas that will be taking glue?
I went and looked at some for a build the other night and it seems to have a slick waterproofing finish on it. Does glue stick to this well? Or, should I run a palm sander on the areas that will be taking glue?
Well, I've used it for years in houses for subfloor and can only tell you that it works great with construction adhesive, but it will probably do acceptably well with PVA glue, yellow or white. I only used it for a test cab because it's cheap. Advantech is impregnated with something that makes it very water resistant, it's designed to sit on open decks in housebuilding and resist weather. If I was really wanting to glue it, I'd use something more viscous like a PU construction adhesive.
I've played with this beyma coaxial drivers 10 years ago...To me they looked phenomenal and really wanted to have them!
Going through this thread I can only say that I can understand the frustrations that you are having with them.
In the end, I never managed to make them sound nice, even though I've made the crossover with quite similar response that Davor showed on his previous post.
I had a feeling that they were just missing a lot of information in mid range, and on top of that, horn never managed to sound nice. They threw huge and holographic soundstage though. I tried them in MLTL and it was horrible experience. They played much better in Tannoy Arden BR style box (I even think it was 1/1 box, just different tuning). They were a lot of fun and frustration in the same time. Maybe I gave up on them too quickly :/
From my memory, my 3-way build with beyma cp385nd+TD195, 10M250, 15K200 was much better sounding, even if not going much deeper in bass.
Probably the best sounding and worst looking loudspeakers I have ever made 😀.
However, I didn't give up on beyma coaxials. I took a risk again 4 years ago with 10cx300Fe.
This is a savant pro driver with hi-fi like characteristics(soft suspensions on woofer, smoooooth CD...)! They can be compared with any 10" coax and still win IMO.
Try to model it in WinISD and you will see... I think they can play equally low in bass as 15cxa400Fe, with more kick and details in mid range and really nice transition to compression driver which plays smooth and with finesse. Those speakers were my reference for 3 years and I still regret selling them.
My friend also made a pair with the same crossover but different box.
We were testing few Z-M's FW class A amps on them, and I was mesmerized again how good they sound with Class A amps.
Going through this thread I can only say that I can understand the frustrations that you are having with them.
In the end, I never managed to make them sound nice, even though I've made the crossover with quite similar response that Davor showed on his previous post.
I had a feeling that they were just missing a lot of information in mid range, and on top of that, horn never managed to sound nice. They threw huge and holographic soundstage though. I tried them in MLTL and it was horrible experience. They played much better in Tannoy Arden BR style box (I even think it was 1/1 box, just different tuning). They were a lot of fun and frustration in the same time. Maybe I gave up on them too quickly :/
From my memory, my 3-way build with beyma cp385nd+TD195, 10M250, 15K200 was much better sounding, even if not going much deeper in bass.
Probably the best sounding and worst looking loudspeakers I have ever made 😀.
However, I didn't give up on beyma coaxials. I took a risk again 4 years ago with 10cx300Fe.
This is a savant pro driver with hi-fi like characteristics(soft suspensions on woofer, smoooooth CD...)! They can be compared with any 10" coax and still win IMO.
Try to model it in WinISD and you will see... I think they can play equally low in bass as 15cxa400Fe, with more kick and details in mid range and really nice transition to compression driver which plays smooth and with finesse. Those speakers were my reference for 3 years and I still regret selling them.
My friend also made a pair with the same crossover but different box.
We were testing few Z-M's FW class A amps on them, and I was mesmerized again how good they sound with Class A amps.
Thanks chakija, that was a great read and good information, makes me feel a little better about ditching the 15cxa400Fes, which are in their boxes and heading back tomorrow! I have a pair of Radian 5210 coaxes sitting on my bench since May, and if I don't sell them to my friend I've been dreaming of a 3 way build with those and a 15", maybe the Faital 15PR400 if it works well in my current 2 way build with the AH425/SB Rosso 65CDN-T. I'm excited about this one, and really think it's going to be a winner. I'm still slightly on the fence about the CD, still considering the Beyma CP755Ti, which looks great on paper and has won praise here and there. I'd love to hear any thoughts anyone might have on either of these CDs or other suggestions for a 1.4" to work with the 425 horn.
Like you chakija I love coaxes and don't want to give up on the idea, that big Beyma was just too much for me to handle and I felt it had too many compromises, especially when I realized I was not going to hit the sensitivity level I need.
Like you chakija I love coaxes and don't want to give up on the idea, that big Beyma was just too much for me to handle and I felt it had too many compromises, especially when I realized I was not going to hit the sensitivity level I need.
Thanks Bryan.
This may end up as a more permanent build for the time being until Baltic Birch comes down in price. I will say that it's stiffness and uniform thickness impressed me. (Yeah, I took calipers to Lowe's, consistently 18.7 -18.8 mm)
I do plan to use a coating, it's not for in-home use.
I hadn’t given it much thought as a finished material, but when I was making the test cab, I did think “wow this stuff might actually make a good enclosure” performance wise. Definitely superior to mdf which I will never ever use again. I know of a speaker maker who uses particle board in parts of his enclosures and swears by it. Not all particleboard is the same, some of it is very dense and stiff. Advantech looks a lot like its inferior cousin, OSB, but it’s in another league, and even takes edge grain screws really well, which is telling.
Any of the screw on CD coaxials have a problem with reflection from the woofer, back to the tweeter diaphragm, then re re radiated. Shows up as a narrow dip on freq response. Butchery on tone burst and audible harshness.
Are you talking about the open VC gap interrupting the WG taper and cuasing reflection artifacts? The Eminence KL3012CX doesn't have this anomaly as severe as other coax drivers. If you're limiting low end to the driver, you can use some neoprene foam tape over the VC gap if you dare remove the dust cap.
The air column that resonates and causes the (very audible) problem is the length of the tweeter horn from the tweeter diaphragm to the horn mouth. Woofer energy excites the resonance that is visible in frequency response first at 1/4 wave as a narrow suckout. Tone burst response more clearly shows the damage done.
Well, I can't say I knew this when I ditched The Beyma coaxes and opted for a horn/woofer configuration, but I was getting the growing sense that the compromises involved in a DIY coax build were not going to be satisfactory. Imaging being one of the benefits of coax drivers, if I'm crossing a La Cleac'h horn at 700Hz as opposed to 1500 or so, the imaging should be there without the distortion inherent in a coax.
Here's the enclosure, early stages, should be sprayed out by midweek:
Here's the enclosure, early stages, should be sprayed out by midweek:
Looks great Bryan….have you decided on a horn and driver?
Eminence under direction of B&C has discontinued the 12” Coax I wanted to give a go……they have less than a hundred in stock and I don’t want to build and share obsolescence.
I‘m gonna tackle a DIY effort of the JBL Synthesis 1400 instead.
Eminence under direction of B&C has discontinued the 12” Coax I wanted to give a go……they have less than a hundred in stock and I don’t want to build and share obsolescence.
I‘m gonna tackle a DIY effort of the JBL Synthesis 1400 instead.
Thanks mayhem. I'm using the SBA Rosso 65CDN-T, 1.4" there's been some good feedback on it. Troy Crowe did a review early in the year and holds it in high regard. The horns are Martin Seddon's Azura H425, they arrived from Australia yesterday, absolutely stunning. They're Le Cleac'h horns, pretty directional but perfect for my needs. The woofs are Faital 15PR400.
I hadn't heard of the Synthesis 1400 so looked into it. Looks like a real sounder. Are you going to build the trapezoidal enclosures too?
I hadn't heard of the Synthesis 1400 so looked into it. Looks like a real sounder. Are you going to build the trapezoidal enclosures too?
How do you know they're being discontinued? I don't see anything about this on their site. I've also asked other distributors about it and they haven't heard this to be the case.
Even so, that wouldn't stop me from using it. There are always some left over, floating around. If it was a well selling product, I don't see why they'd stop making it, also being it doesn't compete with any of the other B&C product range.
You can‘t see the items unless you’re a dealer. The carbon hex diaphragms are going too. Eminence has been on life support since 2020 when the supply chains began to dry up from China. B&C stepped in and bought them……their full intention has not been revealed.
Looks like a pretty nice CD. I love the look of those 425s but I’ve never heard them.
The plan is to keep the speaker with a narrow profile and replace the 14” woofer with a triplet of 8” woofers with the bottom two getting a .5 inductor. Gotta get more info on the horn profile first though…..I can’t see how that horn has only a 40 degree vertical window being shaped like that……it looks like a 40/90 biradial simply turned on its side.
Well it's been a while, haven't had as much time as I'd have liked in the last month, but this project has finally turned the corner and the speakers are built. I'm waiting on a few odds and ends, mostly cable stuff, but also an amp my buddy Cam is building me and a Sublime K231 active xover. Cam has been at me for months and he finally convinced me, so this will be an active speaker setup, biamped with tubes on the SBA compression driver and a killer class D on the Faital. Will try to cross at 500Hz, Troy Crowe is making me extended rear covers for the CD which will drop the Fr and allow a better cross down there. I had a lot of difficulty with the lacquer, used a product that was new to me and it was a sh*t show, but it turned out ok.
So far measurements with REW look pretty good. I had intended to tune them to 44Hz because I liked the way it looked in WinISD, but when I measured today the ports measured at 40Hz (I figured I was going to shorten them) and I'm going to leave them there because I don't see the penalty I saw in WinISD. The cream on top, literally, are Martin Seddon's Azura 425 horns, they are beautiful and really make the whole project work visually for me. I am assuming this will follow sonically, haven't measured the horn/CDs yet, waiting for those rear covers. If there are any Active xover users here I will probably have a few questions very soon, there's not a lot of info on the web really.
Here are some progress shots:
So far measurements with REW look pretty good. I had intended to tune them to 44Hz because I liked the way it looked in WinISD, but when I measured today the ports measured at 40Hz (I figured I was going to shorten them) and I'm going to leave them there because I don't see the penalty I saw in WinISD. The cream on top, literally, are Martin Seddon's Azura 425 horns, they are beautiful and really make the whole project work visually for me. I am assuming this will follow sonically, haven't measured the horn/CDs yet, waiting for those rear covers. If there are any Active xover users here I will probably have a few questions very soon, there's not a lot of info on the web really.
Here are some progress shots:
