My take when i was selling them brand new. And IMO not even top HiFi from the past. Other people using the same drivers did a better job.I sold an awfuil lot of KEF B139/B200/B110/T27s.
I am sitting on 16 B200s, not sure what to do with them, but they definitely have nostalgia value.
dave
Other people did “British sound” much better.
Spendor BC1 (still a loudspeaker i enjoy today, even if a bit coloured). The Tangents were really goodm (the ones that swapped KEF B200 for Audax were the best — one of my favourites), IMF, Fried (not even British). Others as well. LS3/5A was notable but doesn’t make the list. The KEFs tended to soumd “rounded over” and kinda boring. We got ro listen to a lot of loudspeakers.
Here on the left coast of NA, we did not have a complete sampling as thiose in the UK would.
dave
I count 6 pair in my living room right now, and at least that many in a couple other rooms.
dave
BIG!
First issue is actually figuring out what size box to use. Given the factory specs the boxes i have seen thes euse in historically are much smaller than expected (except IMF TLSS0), without exaggerated bass.
At this moment a pair of smallish isobariks, and EQ to deal with th ewunknown bass response.
dave
Try a PMC style labyrinth TL. Use the one I had for a 5.25in driver and scale it up by 1.25x. I think that should work for B139. Make it out of XPS foam to test it out before cutting wood.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-monitor-with-dc130a-and-dc28f.281778/page-13
I have found this design to be very flexible and forgiving. I have scaled it up for a 6.5in driver and it works perfectly for both a Purifi and a Wiggins XBL.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-monitor-with-dc130a-and-dc28f.281778/page-13
I have found this design to be very flexible and forgiving. I have scaled it up for a 6.5in driver and it works perfectly for both a Purifi and a Wiggins XBL.
The conclusion that I draw from this is that using an old B139 to create something new (or even resurrect something classic with other newer drivers) is an experiment by its nature. It's going to involve steep learning curves (such as speaker measurement, DSP crossovers for testing, building active XOs and so on). It'll not result in a finished set of speakers in my living room in 6 months time - more like 2 or 3 years. It's going to be thought provoking and will need endless hours of leaning but thanks to people on here I now have a direction. It'll be fun. What I will do though is build a pair of BabyL speakers that will be of use in another room and probably form part of the later solution for the B139s. Thankyou to those who contributed their thoughts and knowledge - it is very much appreciated.
So... back to square 1 for the living room in the immediate future which needs a pair of speakers.
For the sake of simplicity I'd like to build a full-range driver cabinet - and I'm drawn to the MA drivers for reasons unknown to myself.
Floor space is at a premium (ask my better half on that one), height is not, so taller is better than broader. I've been looking at Scott Lindgrens designs (Lake District series etc) and then came across the BiB (and the designer spreadsheet for it) - all of which look interesting. The BiB really would tuck neatly into the corners being so slim.
However I have but one simple question - are full-range drivers such as the MAs, in such cabinets, enough to 'fill' a room this size?
5m / 16.5' wide
6.2m / 20.5' long
2.75m / 9' high
So... back to square 1 for the living room in the immediate future which needs a pair of speakers.
For the sake of simplicity I'd like to build a full-range driver cabinet - and I'm drawn to the MA drivers for reasons unknown to myself.
Floor space is at a premium (ask my better half on that one), height is not, so taller is better than broader. I've been looking at Scott Lindgrens designs (Lake District series etc) and then came across the BiB (and the designer spreadsheet for it) - all of which look interesting. The BiB really would tuck neatly into the corners being so slim.
However I have but one simple question - are full-range drivers such as the MAs, in such cabinets, enough to 'fill' a room this size?
5m / 16.5' wide
6.2m / 20.5' long
2.75m / 9' high
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Not if you want high fidelity reproduction at standard levels (i.e. 80-85 dB average at the listening position - the level in a cinema). Displacing enough air to accurately reproduce low frequency transients requires something like a 10-12" woofer (e.g. pro midfield monitors) or 2 x 6.5-8" woofers (e.g. home audio towers). Wideband drivers can be a good solution for consumer audio like TVs, radios, soundbars,... and, possibly, as a first DIY build given their simplicity but they have limited application in high fidelity speakers outside arrays and even here resonance issues remain.
As a check consider the 85dB 5W one recommended earlier. 5W will give +7dB(ish) at 1m, listening position 4m away is -12dB and with -20 dB overhead for transients that gives a clean average SPL level at the listening position of 60 dB. Now the driver may handle peaks larger than 5W, there will be a few dB rise from the room, which is also likely to be resonating significantly and some recordings may not require 20 dB overhead. One could perhaps make a case for 70 dB average cleanish but this is still well short of standard levels. Some may be happy to listen at this low level typical of TV or radio listening but most aren't when listening to music in the foreground. Much live music is significantly louder than standard levels.
As well as not being loud enough, wideband drivers have a significantly limited frequency passband, use resonances to raise the high frequencies leading to an even frequency response and uneven sound radiation pattern. If you listen to better examples they can sound surprisingly decent but it isn't high fidelity in a technical sense.
As a check consider the 85dB 5W one recommended earlier. 5W will give +7dB(ish) at 1m, listening position 4m away is -12dB and with -20 dB overhead for transients that gives a clean average SPL level at the listening position of 60 dB. Now the driver may handle peaks larger than 5W, there will be a few dB rise from the room, which is also likely to be resonating significantly and some recordings may not require 20 dB overhead. One could perhaps make a case for 70 dB average cleanish but this is still well short of standard levels. Some may be happy to listen at this low level typical of TV or radio listening but most aren't when listening to music in the foreground. Much live music is significantly louder than standard levels.
As well as not being loud enough, wideband drivers have a significantly limited frequency passband, use resonances to raise the high frequencies leading to an even frequency response and uneven sound radiation pattern. If you listen to better examples they can sound surprisingly decent but it isn't high fidelity in a technical sense.
My room is considerably bigger an di have no issues with sufficient levels. But they do need sufficient amplification, 5-7 w is nice for most situations but if i want to play louder i need one of the bigger amps.
Depends how loud you listen and to some extent what you listen to.
dave
Depends how loud you listen and to some extent what you listen to.
dave
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Ideally concert hall volume. When I'm allowed to! No louder. The days of making myself deaf by clubbing and by standing next to PA stacks of heavy rock bands are long gone. Usually acoustic - anything from Washboard Sam and Blind Lemon Jefferson to Wagner opera via string quartets and Diana Krall.
Incidentally is the CHR?70 a fair replacement for the EL70s in Scott Lindgrens Lake District series? I gather the latter is based on the former. The Coniston would fit the floor space extremely well. Not too difficult to construct and the cost is fairly low. I notice elsewhere that you say you have/had a pair of Vulcan's? and that they were fine in your large space.
Incidentally is the CHR?70 a fair replacement for the EL70s in Scott Lindgrens Lake District series? I gather the latter is based on the former. The Coniston would fit the floor space extremely well. Not too difficult to construct and the cost is fairly low. I notice elsewhere that you say you have/had a pair of Vulcan's? and that they were fine in your large space.
The peak levels in a concert hall listening to an orchestra are going to be beyond what good hi-fi speakers can deliver cleanly. The notion that tiny wideband drivers might is daft. This doesn't mean wideband enthusiasts don't enjoy listening to orchestral music on their speakers but that the fidelity is compromised and the level low. You may be fine with this but most people in this multi-way forum likely won't be whereas I presume most in the sister wideband forum likely are. Going from a KEF B139 to a tiny wideband will be a significant step down in SPL. Depending on what is important to you it may not be a problem but for many expecting high fidelity sound at standard levels (not concert hall levels) it would be.
Whatever, finding out first hand what a current wideband driver can and cannot do may be fun and relatively inexpensive. Even I have considered doing it though I have yet to get round to it.
If you've ever listened to the mayhem that Gergiev unleashed with the Mahler symphonies (available on LSO Live CD and download) by having the percussion (and especially bass drum) set well forward in the LSOs Barbican hall home... the dynamic range was astounding. I first heard it on headphones at normal volumes and the wallop made me tear the 'phones off. Speaker destroying and musically controversial performances - but what a test of a system!
I'm under no illusions - nothing can replace a live performance. But... I'm a fiddler.. and I like the idea of the simplicity of a FR driver, the building process and the learning curve of the journey - and the cost of such is not high. I'll almost certainly experiment later with adding the B139s by the side of them in Daves TL, and then think about a multi-driver construction. Just as I swap headphones according to the music concerned I'm likely to do that with speakers. I have 8 or 9 violins (including a couple of electrics) and each has a different balance of strengths and weaknesses and I'm always trying different string brands, moving the soundposts, re-voicing the bridges - all in an endless effort to reach the perceived or imagined perfection of a Stradivari. What lets this effort down is my playing!
What equipment do you have, amplifier, DAC, turntable?
Full range drivers are anything but simple to implement. Most need a corrective network for frequency range and baffle step. Smaller drivers have problems with low frequencies, larger ones with high frequencies and polar characteristic.
The ones on Youtube who take the 15" FR driver and put it on the flat board, then shout that they haven't heard anything better, it's just a trip, it's not true. 🤣
Full range drivers are anything but simple to implement. Most need a corrective network for frequency range and baffle step. Smaller drivers have problems with low frequencies, larger ones with high frequencies and polar characteristic.
The ones on Youtube who take the 15" FR driver and put it on the flat board, then shout that they haven't heard anything better, it's just a trip, it's not true. 🤣
Turntable is a Thorens TD150, amp most in use at present is a 1980s Marantz (although there's a Leak Stereo 20 and Rodgers Cadet III waiting for restoration), DAC is an iFi Zen v2 - fed from a Dell Optiplex running a very stripped down Linux with Minimserver feeding several Raspberry Pis with RoPieee.
This is why I'd rely entirely on people with track records (such as Scott and Dave) rather than Youtube 'influencers'. (or myself, come to that!)
How much money do you plan to spend? Does Troels Gravesen have a model that you like?
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
Troels does indeed have several models that look very good - expensive however - especially in post-Brexit UK where costs of imports have soared mainly due to increased border controls and costs. (Don't get me started on that one!) So I've been looking at IPLs TL kits
https://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/
and MJKLs Satori TL:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project13/Project13.html
IPL is in north Devon and very close to where I live - maybe an hours drive. I like supporting local businesses - mainly because I'm a local business these days.
https://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/
and MJKLs Satori TL:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project13/Project13.html
IPL is in north Devon and very close to where I live - maybe an hours drive. I like supporting local businesses - mainly because I'm a local business these days.