Knowledge and intelligence are not enough

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Shall we start a pool on how long before Netflix announces a biopic of Mr Rush?
Interesting early career, but then his arrogance and hubris took over. I’m of two minds as to whether to empathize with Wendy or not. As the spokesperson for Oceangate, she must have been aware of the numerous and egregious shortcuts that were made in the name of “innovation”

Excerpt from Wikipedia:
In a 2022 podcast with CBS reporter David Pogue, Rush discussed his attitude toward what he perceived as excessive safety precautions: "You know, at some point, safety just is pure waste. I mean if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed, don't get in your car, don't do anything. At some point, you're going to take some risk, and it really is a risk/reward question. I think I can do this just as safely by breaking the rules.”

It’s my understanding that all participants in the dives (this was either the 3rd or 4th?) signed very carefully parsed liability waivers, so litigation might be difficult?

The worst angle for me was 19 year old Suleman Dawood who was more than a bit apprehensive above the undertaking, but acquiesced to humor his father.

As brutal as it might be to opine, at least they likely never knew what hit them.
 
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Regarding intelligence, some say the ability that separates us from other Great Apes is to plan and predict...to simulate in our mind's eye, if you will. And now we have invented machines to do this faster and more accurately for some systems.
Call it intuition or whatever, but some people are really good at anticipating whether somethings will succeed or fail, where others aren't.
It's probably something to do with parallel processing/pattern matching of a huge mental database.
(And a little luck)
 
CF, your grandiose views of things leave me shaking my head………have you ever thought for a minute some people might be intelligent enough to get through their own fluff without having being told what is important to society? That some just want a technical education to reach their career goals and thats all?
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MB,

I want to point out that our back and forth debate on this matter stems entirely from one of your earlier posts where you said:

..."i’ve worked with many engineers and unfortunately 90% of them were exactly as described above, book smart and trained for single track thinking……..sometimes things just don’t work out and they pitch a fit instead of trying to think outside the box...."

Unfortunetly, your characterization of graduate engineers is exactly the opposite of what I believe them to be and what the universities are training them to be. And that is why I have made several posts that completely counter your description of how today's engineers approach problems. Visit any major university's website and will see the very broad and emcompassing programs that undergraduate engineers go through. The goal, and I believe it is successful, is to turn out people who do in fact think outside the box.

I'm not sure if your characterization comes from some form of professional jealousy or somewhere else. But it certainly is not accurate in describing the abilities and performance of graduate engineers. Far from it.
 
Let me wade in to the engineer bashing again. I had a somewhat unique career in that I have worked in 2 different engineering disciplines, and worked in all design and construction phases. Again, my experience is the engineer is not the problem with what is commonly thought of as engineering mistakes. I can think of a megaproject where I uniquely worked from the beginning of detailed design all the way to after the plant was started up and running in a leadership role. The control system was an ugly system. But I knew from having been involved in at a leadership level for a very long time and the benefit of that better viewpoint that the core mistake was made very early on at the concept phase at a much broader level of detail, and all the engineering that came after was just putting lipstick on a pig.
 
Doubtful you could buy a policy with that dangerous experimental craft.
Yeah, highly unlikely. Apparently he was a test flight engineer for McDonnell Douglas Corp. back in the day.

the plant was started up and running
What sort of plant if you don't mind me asking? I worked in a Pulp Mill steam plant when I was young.

jeff
 
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Eurocan in Kitimat.

jeff
Ah, went there just once for the audit. Spent a lot of time in Kitimat at the Methanex plant.

IIRC the CS at Eurocan was unique in that the HMI was programmed from an electrician's point of view. Every other CS I've worked had either green or process fluid colour to indicate a pump is running, but at Eurocan a running pump was red, because from an electrician's view the pump is energized and now a hazard.
 
Let me wade in to the engineer bashing again. I had a somewhat unique career in that I have worked in 2 different engineering disciplines, and worked in all design and construction phases. Again, my experience is the engineer is not the problem with what is commonly thought of as engineering mistakes. I can think of a megaproject where I uniquely worked from the beginning of detailed design all the way to after the plant was started up and running in a leadership role. The control system was an ugly system. But I knew from having been involved in at a leadership level for a very long time and the benefit of that better viewpoint that the core mistake was made very early on at the concept phase at a much broader level of detail, and all the engineering that came after was just putting lipstick on a pig.
Thank you for giving that insight, it was easy for me to lash out about the engineers on the ground directly involved with making it happen because its the faces you saw…….the design team and the ones responsible to get it done on time and under budget are the ones (more than likely) causing the problems. Most of these experiences were 30+ years ago……the world was a much different place then. Doesn’t negate the fact 90% of the ones I dealt with were self righteous,pompous, and fairly delusional. I must have been blinded by jealousy though 😉
 
Spent a lot of time in Kitimat at the Methanex plant.
They were just starting the site build when I left town.

IIRC the CS at Eurocan was unique in that the HMI was programmed from an electrician's point of view. Every other CS I've worked had either green or process fluid colour to indicate a pump is running, but at Eurocan a running pump was red, because from an electrician's view the pump is energized and now a hazard.
Eurocan had a terrible safety record. When I started in 1979, they were still using paper tags in the MCC rooms. The next year we all got locks, so we could actually lock-out a machine breaker.

jeff
 
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