I have someone very close to me who is educated in accounting.
Fact is she's lousy with numbers.
I think we all have someone in our life like this.
I always thougth hiding oneself behind citations was the last degre of it.
Knowledge is not always coralated with wisdom... Though it should be talking about philo in the pop culture. Alas moral has nothing to see with the fact one believes to know a non studied corpus
U do not know greater egos than engineers... trained by pack to think so...hey.
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Probably a better reference, and actually the quote I was looking for:
"Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing."
https://www.oxfordreference.com/dis...2;jsessionid=36BE2366359E0EE8833386FAA7321DD4
Its that basic research is different in some ways from applied research. In the latter case you know something about where you are trying to get to. In the former case, it is simply exploration of the unknown.
When I was a kid a lot of what motivated me to be be creative, and to build things that other people still remember me for, was for no reason other than to escape boredom. That was the problem. What can I do so as not to be bored?
Point is there may be more than one way to frame a problem, and choosing an inspired framing may be very important to developing insight into a problem and its possible solutions. Framing of a problem can go deeper than merely defining it.
Then there are the problems deemed "wicked." Not so easy to define some of those:
https://www.stonybrook.edu/commcms/wicked-problem/about/What-is-a-wicked-problem
On another topic in this thread, what I did as a kid to gain breadth of education is get my parents to take me to the main library in downtown Richmond, California, every weekend I could. Read on many subjects. Still do. Didn't need college to force it.
"Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing."
https://www.oxfordreference.com/dis...2;jsessionid=36BE2366359E0EE8833386FAA7321DD4
Its that basic research is different in some ways from applied research. In the latter case you know something about where you are trying to get to. In the former case, it is simply exploration of the unknown.
When I was a kid a lot of what motivated me to be be creative, and to build things that other people still remember me for, was for no reason other than to escape boredom. That was the problem. What can I do so as not to be bored?
Point is there may be more than one way to frame a problem, and choosing an inspired framing may be very important to developing insight into a problem and its possible solutions. Framing of a problem can go deeper than merely defining it.
Then there are the problems deemed "wicked." Not so easy to define some of those:
https://www.stonybrook.edu/commcms/wicked-problem/about/What-is-a-wicked-problem
On another topic in this thread, what I did as a kid to gain breadth of education is get my parents to take me to the main library in downtown Richmond, California, every weekend I could. Read on many subjects. Still do. Didn't need college to force it.
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Why pick on engineers all the time. Lots of other people in the world with huge egos.
jeff
Cause here we have some engineers talking of science and knowledge theory but making several non sense, plus including it in their knowledge field by ego as if they rule it. Typical of these schools mentality.
You do not move such anchors with careless.
You do not move such anchors with careless.
It's unfortunate that you feel this way, but it's not surprising at all. In fact, it is pretty much what I would expect from someone who believes that a college education is a waste of time and money.
The problem appears to be that you really don't understand what a college education in engineering is all about.
Fortunatley, this very narrow minded approach that you describe is exactly the opposite of what is actually taking place at the best universities in the country today. Instead, there is an emphasis on providing the students with a broad and creative background so that they may function successfully in a wide range of opportunities in the future.
Engineering graduates take many different directions not all of which depend directly on their major. What is important is that they have the tools and ability to properly define problems and therefor reach good solutions.
It all starts with the discipline and ability to first carefully define problems, which unfortunately many people without an engineering background do not have.
I'd like to know who these engineers are that believe in Science. Usually, it's the ones that don't that spew nonsense. 😉
jeff
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You're right Jeff.
We should start ranting on Architects. The Engineers have to work with what they are dealt. They do their best to sort out how to produce what the artist has given them. That headache is passed onto the General Contractors, then the subs, who eventually turn to me for answers. I am in the firing line to quickly sort out problems I didn't create.
Do I hear three cheers for intuition! Hip, hip...
I want to start a movement against Architects! Who's with me?
I swear the next time I see a guy with creased pants and clean finger nails telling me the facts of life, I swear I'ma gonna
him.
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Jeff, I like it but I would prefer an ABC approach.
How about:
Architectural Belittling Commission
How about:
Architectural Belittling Commission
Come join me on a job site. If you don't see one within 30 minutes, I buy lunch.
Book smart, reality stupid is pretty darn common.
Being an engineer, let me wade in to this meandering thread. As to the "engineers being no smarter than techs" comment, my professional experience is the opposite, techs could do 90% maybe but when **** started going down, it was the engineers who had to figure it out. Could be specific to my job, I was a controls engineer at a control systems company, basically one of the guys you call to figure it out.
As for engineers having big egos, I would have agreed, until I started my MBA, and now I would say "you have no idea". I do know engineers that are egomaniacs, and quite successful because selling themselves is effortless.
As for engineers spewing unscientific nonsense, just look up confirmation bias. The more you know, the more your mind can create arguments to justify your preconceived beliefs.
As for engineers having big egos, I would have agreed, until I started my MBA, and now I would say "you have no idea". I do know engineers that are egomaniacs, and quite successful because selling themselves is effortless.
As for engineers spewing unscientific nonsense, just look up confirmation bias. The more you know, the more your mind can create arguments to justify your preconceived beliefs.
It's ok, I believe you. There is a condo in Langford that's been condemned a couple of times. Seems the structural engineer forgot to add rebar to the concrete. 🙂
jeff
“It's unfortunate that you feel this way, but it's not surprising at all.”
First off, I don’t feel this way……..myself and others in similar situations experienced it first hand, and i’m not talking some rinky dink mom’n pop operations. I‘ve worked side by side in critical installation capacity with dozens of high end engineers (maybe even hundreds if you count the offices) General Dynamics, Dominion Energy, FES structural engineering in Boston, not counting the (again) dozens+ in my home building career…….and then theres the several engineers that I know personally. These are not reckless statements made by some uneducated redneck (although that may be how I come across to you).
“In fact, it is pretty much what I would expect from someone who believes that a college education is a waste of time and money.”
Secondly, I reckon you missed the chapter on comprehension!
Force fed elective fluff (see video) is what I referenced…….quite clearly I might add.
Edit; let me add a question here…… Was denigration taught as a debate tool at your college?
“The problem appears to be that you really don't understand what a college education in engineering is all about.”
If I want an education in engineering and am forced to take (and pay for example) dinosaurs 101 I would not be happy with the “well rounded” explanation.
You‘ve not defined the problem well at all, more like misinterpreted it and took the typical one track and its the right track approach.…….Which in my view is part of the problem.
First off, I don’t feel this way……..myself and others in similar situations experienced it first hand, and i’m not talking some rinky dink mom’n pop operations. I‘ve worked side by side in critical installation capacity with dozens of high end engineers (maybe even hundreds if you count the offices) General Dynamics, Dominion Energy, FES structural engineering in Boston, not counting the (again) dozens+ in my home building career…….and then theres the several engineers that I know personally. These are not reckless statements made by some uneducated redneck (although that may be how I come across to you).
“In fact, it is pretty much what I would expect from someone who believes that a college education is a waste of time and money.”
Secondly, I reckon you missed the chapter on comprehension!
Force fed elective fluff (see video) is what I referenced…….quite clearly I might add.
Edit; let me add a question here…… Was denigration taught as a debate tool at your college?
“The problem appears to be that you really don't understand what a college education in engineering is all about.”
If I want an education in engineering and am forced to take (and pay for example) dinosaurs 101 I would not be happy with the “well rounded” explanation.
You‘ve not defined the problem well at all, more like misinterpreted it and took the typical one track and its the right track approach.…….Which in my view is part of the problem.
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Yup and they are and were smart enough to call in the specialists when they knew they were over their head.
Architects, not so much. The stigma of getting it wrong when you are the visionary has broken many an architectural back.
For the most part, I am in agreement with you Tony.
Okay, funny is funny but I thought we were being serious.
Link please.
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Big Meany
here for a sec.Bob, quoting without attribution is not allowed here. Simply highlight the text and it gives you the quote box automatically. Please use it.
Mea Culpa,
I did try it that way first and it didn’t transfer to the response box?
moving on officer 🙂
I did try it that way first and it didn’t transfer to the response box?
moving on officer 🙂
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