Looks like the audio design team in France is no more after COVID. Cdsgames, the chief audio designer has disappeared. His real name was Ioan, IIRC. Don't know what ever happened to him. We used to have some conversations about dac design and during one period of time he would send prototypes here for listening tests and our comments. Eventually that slowed his development time down too much. I suggested that he at least listen himself since if he could hear a difference then surely some of his customers could too. With some practice he found he could do it. Good for him 
Hi folks.
Has anybody put the Katana side by side to the PI using a ribbon cable or whatever cabling ?? What would that be ?? Any downsides - soundwise?
Why?
I am already using a 90° angle GPIO adapter.
1. I am getting the DAC slightly away from the Pi
2. It lets me run a much better Pi cooling.
3. And I can access the GPIO for attaching some buffer caps and filters
Has anybody put the Katana side by side to the PI using a ribbon cable or whatever cabling ?? What would that be ?? Any downsides - soundwise?
Why?
I am already using a 90° angle GPIO adapter.
1. I am getting the DAC slightly away from the Pi
2. It lets me run a much better Pi cooling.
3. And I can access the GPIO for attaching some buffer caps and filters
Using the stack as intended, I glued a small heatsink to the CPU and to the Katana controller chips. It seems sufficient.
I would also be interested to know whether separation would have more positive or negative consequences. I would like to build the whole thing into a flat housing at some point.
I would also be interested to know whether separation would have more positive or negative consequences. I would like to build the whole thing into a flat housing at some point.
Hey Mark, was going to mention your experience. A useful data point.
User42, a worthwhile experiment, let us know what you hear.
In my experience I2S signal integrity seems to be more important than about anything else. The GPIO connections are already not optimized to maintain integrity of that type of signal, so I expect lengthening them to reduce SQ.
In various DAC implementations using I2S over the last 15 years or so, some using u.fl, others less optimized leads, shorter leads always improved SQ. So my experience says no.
Related, with the Katana, a friend reported improved SQ when on a USBBridge Signature after removing Allo's Isolator board. I heard the same.
#1 - The isolation devices in an isolator board add some jitter to the i2S signals
#2 - The Katana does not reclock at the DAC board so no means to improve lost signal integrity
#3 - The USBBridge Sig is a lower noise source both due no switching DC-DC regulators shared across multiple chips but instead to all chips having dedicated linear regulators, & the Compute Module off to the side of the DAC instead of directly underneath, likely reducing radiated noise at the Katana DAC board
We both used the Katana with all linear supplies & regulators with the on-board DC-DC regulator providing +-15V to the output board turned off, so an already overall low-noise setup.
Of course this is not directly compatible, but perhaps another useful datapoint. In our lower-noise than typical Katana implementations, better I2S signal integrity was more important to SQ than the galvanic isolation of Allo's Isolator board.
If you are using the DC-DC converter for the +-15V to the output board or SMPS's for any of the supplies, I am not sure the differences will be anywhere near as audible.
Looking forward to your report.
Greg in Mississippi
User42, a worthwhile experiment, let us know what you hear.
In my experience I2S signal integrity seems to be more important than about anything else. The GPIO connections are already not optimized to maintain integrity of that type of signal, so I expect lengthening them to reduce SQ.
In various DAC implementations using I2S over the last 15 years or so, some using u.fl, others less optimized leads, shorter leads always improved SQ. So my experience says no.
Related, with the Katana, a friend reported improved SQ when on a USBBridge Signature after removing Allo's Isolator board. I heard the same.
#1 - The isolation devices in an isolator board add some jitter to the i2S signals
#2 - The Katana does not reclock at the DAC board so no means to improve lost signal integrity
#3 - The USBBridge Sig is a lower noise source both due no switching DC-DC regulators shared across multiple chips but instead to all chips having dedicated linear regulators, & the Compute Module off to the side of the DAC instead of directly underneath, likely reducing radiated noise at the Katana DAC board
We both used the Katana with all linear supplies & regulators with the on-board DC-DC regulator providing +-15V to the output board turned off, so an already overall low-noise setup.
Of course this is not directly compatible, but perhaps another useful datapoint. In our lower-noise than typical Katana implementations, better I2S signal integrity was more important to SQ than the galvanic isolation of Allo's Isolator board.
If you are using the DC-DC converter for the +-15V to the output board or SMPS's for any of the supplies, I am not sure the differences will be anywhere near as audible.
Looking forward to your report.
Greg in Mississippi
Thx guys. Seems that not much experience of relevance (beyond my own) on the subject
is available.
The Katana without reclockers/isolators etc made it back in my system after so-and-so
experiences with commercial stuff from e.g. Gustard, DIY IanCanada stuff and a lot more this and that.
Not that these solutions were bad. I consider most of them overkill and much too expensive for
what they offer. And for me overcomplexity of a system is also a NoGo.
Beside that all that HW tinkering has it's limitations. A lot more can IMO be gained
on the streaming (-network) or OS side.
A pity that Allo got of course. For a while - during the early days - they IMO were
on the right track. HifiBerry did a much better job - they remained successfully
in a niche market. They even seem to have survived that massive RPi shortage mess.
Perhaps one day IanCanada feels tempted to go for a rather minimalistic HQ
HAT-DAC solution (filling the Allo gap). He'd know how to get there.
Enjoy.
is available.
The Katana without reclockers/isolators etc made it back in my system after so-and-so
experiences with commercial stuff from e.g. Gustard, DIY IanCanada stuff and a lot more this and that.
Not that these solutions were bad. I consider most of them overkill and much too expensive for
what they offer. And for me overcomplexity of a system is also a NoGo.
Beside that all that HW tinkering has it's limitations. A lot more can IMO be gained
on the streaming (-network) or OS side.
A pity that Allo got of course. For a while - during the early days - they IMO were
on the right track. HifiBerry did a much better job - they remained successfully
in a niche market. They even seem to have survived that massive RPi shortage mess.
Perhaps one day IanCanada feels tempted to go for a rather minimalistic HQ
HAT-DAC solution (filling the Allo gap). He'd know how to get there.
Enjoy.
I noticed Archimago's blog had a review of the Innomaker DAC Pro HAT which I think is a clone of the Katana (Innomaker did the same with Allo's Boss DAC HAT as well). Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on it? I was a little late to the Pi DAC HAT scene and the Katana seemed interesting so maybe this could be a way to get something close to it?
The blog post is here https://archimago.blogspot.com/2023/04/as-we-hear-it-innomaker-hifi-dac-pro.html
The blog post is here https://archimago.blogspot.com/2023/04/as-we-hear-it-innomaker-hifi-dac-pro.html
Sorry if the question is too trivial, but what is the name / brand of the white plastic power connector on the Katana circuit board ?
There is a corner broken at my connector, I would like to replace it and need to know the name of it.
For me it looks different from a Molex connector, or am I wrong?
Cheers,
Christoph
There is a corner broken at my connector, I would like to replace it and need to know the name of it.
For me it looks different from a Molex connector, or am I wrong?
Cheers,
Christoph
There are things like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0731MZCGF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
However, they are a type of JST connector. There are a number of different sizes of the pictured series of connectors, depending in pin spacing.
That said, looks like Allo connector may be a little different. If so, don't know if they are compatible with the JST parts.
Some of the different pin spacing sizes look yet a little different from other pin spacings:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2R966ZY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
However, they are a type of JST connector. There are a number of different sizes of the pictured series of connectors, depending in pin spacing.
That said, looks like Allo connector may be a little different. If so, don't know if they are compatible with the JST parts.
Some of the different pin spacing sizes look yet a little different from other pin spacings:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2R966ZY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
Hi Greg,
I suppose you did plug the Katana on the GPIO above the USBbridge Signature ?
Regards,
Etienne
@TweakFan ,
Sorry for my slow response... Yes, that is how I have always used it.
See my post above, #486, for more info.
Best!
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. for those still using a Shanti & are reasonably handy with a soldering iron, I recommend some mods to the supply as detailed (in a link) in post #349 of the Shanti thread (along with another member's mods)...
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/shanti-dual-lps-5v-3a-5v-1-5a.337859/post-5889981
Also in more info in post #370 of that thread.
& For those REALLY handy, a few months ago I replaced the C-L-C filter on the Shanti's AC input with a higher current inductor & better (polypropylene) caps (instead of the stock mylar)... Well worth it, perhaps as significant by itself as all my previous mods, but a challenge to implement inside the Shanti due to the larger parts.
Post here if interested in the details.
Sorry for my slow response... Yes, that is how I have always used it.
See my post above, #486, for more info.
Best!
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. for those still using a Shanti & are reasonably handy with a soldering iron, I recommend some mods to the supply as detailed (in a link) in post #349 of the Shanti thread (along with another member's mods)...
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/shanti-dual-lps-5v-3a-5v-1-5a.337859/post-5889981
Also in more info in post #370 of that thread.
& For those REALLY handy, a few months ago I replaced the C-L-C filter on the Shanti's AC input with a higher current inductor & better (polypropylene) caps (instead of the stock mylar)... Well worth it, perhaps as significant by itself as all my previous mods, but a challenge to implement inside the Shanti due to the larger parts.
Post here if interested in the details.
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Thanks Greg for this precision, it was not as natural to me since USBbridge was first aimed at ... USB DAC.
I should try it, and perhaps change CM3 with a CM4 + adaptator + NVMe local SSD as suggested from Klaus in soudcheck's audio@vise blog, too... when I have some time left...
Best regards !
I should try it, and perhaps change CM3 with a CM4 + adaptator + NVMe local SSD as suggested from Klaus in soudcheck's audio@vise blog, too... when I have some time left...
Best regards !
Hi.
Havn't been around this place for ages. Short update to whom it may concerns.
Earlier this year I've been making sure that the RPI Linux Allo drivers still work on the RPi5. It took a while (about 3 weeks) - mostly to convince and support the RPi developers - to
get the job done. The RPi5 has seen some heavy changes.
Basically all (I'd guess all) Allo DACs and interfaces should work now on a RPi5. I tested the ones I have around - Katana, Boss and Piano.
I'd assume that the rest of the bunch will also work, because the drivers are pretty similar.
I btw replaced my Katana by a $/€59 InnoMaker DAC Pro earlier this year (as soon as the Allo drivers were running again) .
This InnoMaker DAC uses the Katana driver - just to mention it. Price/performance ratio of this HAT I consider outstanding.
Just to follow up on TweakFan post.
All my older RPi/CMx installations are retired now. And I would not recommend these anymore - especially if you consider to purchase one of these.
Those who follow my blog know my currently prefered setup:
piCorePlayer was updated recently for RPi5 support. Probably your best bet if you look for rather decent SQ from an RPi OS.
Enjoy.
Havn't been around this place for ages. Short update to whom it may concerns.
Earlier this year I've been making sure that the RPI Linux Allo drivers still work on the RPi5. It took a while (about 3 weeks) - mostly to convince and support the RPi developers - to
get the job done. The RPi5 has seen some heavy changes.
Basically all (I'd guess all) Allo DACs and interfaces should work now on a RPi5. I tested the ones I have around - Katana, Boss and Piano.
I'd assume that the rest of the bunch will also work, because the drivers are pretty similar.
I btw replaced my Katana by a $/€59 InnoMaker DAC Pro earlier this year (as soon as the Allo drivers were running again) .
This InnoMaker DAC uses the Katana driver - just to mention it. Price/performance ratio of this HAT I consider outstanding.
Just to follow up on TweakFan post.
All my older RPi/CMx installations are retired now. And I would not recommend these anymore - especially if you consider to purchase one of these.
Those who follow my blog know my currently prefered setup:
- RPI5 4Gb in standalone mode - server and player on one machine
- Nvme HAT and Samsung SSD (preferably separately powered)
- customized passive cooling case from GeeekPi
- buffer/filter HAT
- Allo Shanti
- I use a Gustard DAC with iFI USB filters and a custom fuse on my main system - btw.
- and the cream on the cake: My own realtime OS with custom Lyrion server and custom squeezelite plus tons of optimizations.
piCorePlayer was updated recently for RPi5 support. Probably your best bet if you look for rather decent SQ from an RPi OS.
Enjoy.
@soundcheck: you mean, since you run server and storage locally and use a hat DAC, and since USBbridge sig basically offers better USB and ethernet, there wouldn't be any added value in trying to put a CM5 (when available) on an USBbridge sig and Katana/InnoMaker DAC on top of it ?
All I am saying.
The RPi5 is the best RPi ever build. And it's IMO also the best platform for RPi based audio.
The entire PCie/USB/NVME/I2S environment was massively enhanced.
Meanwhile the OS/firmware/SW is getting rather stable, even though it's still work-in-progress.
What I am saying. I consider it a rather safe bet to go for a RPi5. Especially - and this is what this
thread is all about - if you own a Katana or audio HATs that makes use of the Allo driver. That
also applies to other Allo HAT interfaces.
I can't comment on the USB Bridge. I do mean to recall, the product was already outdated at launch.
A major shock and disaster for Allo during those days. Yep. Poor Allo. Allo didn't have that much luck
in its later days. Look at Hifiberry - they are still around - building their rather entry-level HW.
What they seem to have understood - keep focussing on your strong side - your niche!
All the other potential areas of improvement, such as
platforms - which would include commercial streamers as well. On that part you could stick to your existing platform and
try to work on these parts first.
Anyhow. Good luck with your choices. There's no right or wrong. Just a "slightly better or worse".
Bottom line. Let's keep going on that rather fuzzy mission towards .... - what was it again ???
Enjoy.
The RPi5 is the best RPi ever build. And it's IMO also the best platform for RPi based audio.
The entire PCie/USB/NVME/I2S environment was massively enhanced.
Meanwhile the OS/firmware/SW is getting rather stable, even though it's still work-in-progress.
What I am saying. I consider it a rather safe bet to go for a RPi5. Especially - and this is what this
thread is all about - if you own a Katana or audio HATs that makes use of the Allo driver. That
also applies to other Allo HAT interfaces.
I can't comment on the USB Bridge. I do mean to recall, the product was already outdated at launch.
A major shock and disaster for Allo during those days. Yep. Poor Allo. Allo didn't have that much luck
in its later days. Look at Hifiberry - they are still around - building their rather entry-level HW.
What they seem to have understood - keep focussing on your strong side - your niche!
All the other potential areas of improvement, such as
- audio interface types (USB/I2S/SPDIF)
- Wifi
- network storage (NAS/NFS)
- separate client/server setups (incl. UPNP, LMS/squeezelite etc.)
- storage media (SD/USB/NVME)
- internet streaming services
platforms - which would include commercial streamers as well. On that part you could stick to your existing platform and
try to work on these parts first.
Anyhow. Good luck with your choices. There's no right or wrong. Just a "slightly better or worse".
Bottom line. Let's keep going on that rather fuzzy mission towards .... - what was it again ???
Enjoy.
My Innomaker setup:
Ian Canada PurePI II
Rpi 4
Ian Canada IsolatorPI III
InnoMaker DAC Pro
Power supply:
2 Ian Canada LinearPI mkII
1 Ian Canada UcConditioner 5vdc for the InnoMaker DAC Pro
It sounds really really god😊
Software: PicorePlayer 9 on a 256 gb SD card, with approx. 240 gb free for flac files.
Ian Canada PurePI II
Rpi 4
Ian Canada IsolatorPI III
InnoMaker DAC Pro
Power supply:
2 Ian Canada LinearPI mkII
1 Ian Canada UcConditioner 5vdc for the InnoMaker DAC Pro
It sounds really really god😊
Software: PicorePlayer 9 on a 256 gb SD card, with approx. 240 gb free for flac files.