Yes, that’s the one I was looking at as a contender for a Mabat SETH-MEH, but I’m drifting off ot😉
Sorry SATH-MEH
Way too good an acronym to pass up!
[A synergy horn based on Mabats two-boards design (post #10,689 in his mega thread).]
Way too good an acronym to pass up!
[A synergy horn based on Mabats two-boards design (post #10,689 in his mega thread).]
Will throatless drivers (what Faital calls combined exit) have any limitations wrt which horn throat geometries they fit, or is this one of the benfits of a throatless design - that they will match most horns well?
Lament, you could assume so but there is really no way to know other than by measurement. Effect of driver exit/ throat matching is mostly on the top octave. In addition diaphragm breakup and phase plug issues happen on the same bandwidth, distortion, what have we. So, perhaps hard to predict what is what in perceived sound and which driver is better than something else. If there is strong reflection at throat/waveguide junction longer throats would show effects of it lower in frequency so I guess it would be safer bet to use throatless driver.
If you are looking for top sound quality there really isn't other option than buy few interesting drivers and then evaluate side by side in your own setup by your own ears. Affected by bias and ~rough frequency response matching you might end up choosing "worse" driver because it feels better at the moment, so, go what ever rocks your boat 🙂 Its a hobby, just have fun with it!
If I was buying a driver I would consider "throatless" driver, especially for wide coverage waveguide. For narrow coverage device I wouldn't choose driver by its throat but perhaps something else, like personal bias or curiosity, or whats available on local second hand market 🙂
If you are looking for top sound quality there really isn't other option than buy few interesting drivers and then evaluate side by side in your own setup by your own ears. Affected by bias and ~rough frequency response matching you might end up choosing "worse" driver because it feels better at the moment, so, go what ever rocks your boat 🙂 Its a hobby, just have fun with it!
If I was buying a driver I would consider "throatless" driver, especially for wide coverage waveguide. For narrow coverage device I wouldn't choose driver by its throat but perhaps something else, like personal bias or curiosity, or whats available on local second hand market 🙂
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I already have way too many drivers 😂 But you are right, it's fun experimenting with different drivers on different horns, changing the flavor every now and then 🙂
For anyone who did not see yet, Beyma released a bunch of new Compression Drivers this year.
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I always looked for a driver with the shortest throat for this very reason. The DE500 has a shorter throat than a DE250 and did work better in my application, except for the fact that the DE250 had a bit more HF extension which was problematic for the DE500 with a passive X-over - not at all with active.
Here's a what I measure today of a DE250 on an RCF H100 horn. First is from 300hz at 1 foot with no crossover. 2nd is full range with a third order 5uf 1.2mh 12uf with 8ohm and 3 ohm Lpad and at 2 foot. I find 2 foot is better for crossover design. 3rd is with a JBL 2206 with 2.2mh 15uf 2nd order a work in progress.
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Those measure quite well but look very similar to existing drivers, same housing with updated features I guess and a cheesy logo iteration. I don't understand the necessity of releasing so many drivers that perform similarly. It seems idiotic to be honest. Beyma and the likes should have an ultra premium 2" 1.4" and 1" option for maximum fidelity, mid tiered of the same for high power application, and low priced of the same as most economical.
It would be nice to see Beyma, Faital and the likes release something both more contemporary and progressive than preexisting designs. Faital seems to be doing a better job at this. Ideal would be something ultra premium with a very high magnet strength like the CP755ND with lower power handling due to a more advanced and even thinner Beryllium // Paper // Titanium // Aluminum // Carbon // Mylar or whatever diaphragm; with an improved rather than repurposed enclosure designs to reduce resonances and rear wave reflections back into the diaphragm through damping with thicker more premium and experimental material, advanced porting, chambering, energy dissipation channels etc. Applying a material like rhino lining to the interior and exterior of the rear chamber of said driver would resolve resonance issues that I observe with some drivers to a degree. I intuit from looking at them that the more compact and inert enclosures of these new Beyma drivers should be superior to CP755ND enclosure where there is a larger hollow gap behind the diaphragm with minimal damping foam and a relatively thin aluminum rear cover. A better design than the CP755ND is to either put the rear cover as close to the diaphragm as possible, or extend it back to create more volume and fill the internal space with damping material. If maximum spl is not a goal, then a better and easier solution for hifi enthusiasts would be an open back enclosure though that is on the individual owner to figure out as I don't foresee any commercial company releasing such a product.
hi , is it possible to use the beyma CP755ND or faital HF108 with horn if used as a tweeter for home use ? i have tried the HF108 myself like this and i wonder if i really need a horn ...
Do you mean without a horn? Yes it is possible either way, with or without a horn. Some drivers perform better than others without a horn. After some experimentation testing both scenarios I conclude that all compression drivers will perform better with some variety of horn. I prefer small ones as the bigger they become and more aggressive the geometries are, the more the sound tends to become colored.
ok thanks , so a HF108 or CP55ND with a 1000hz tratrix like used in the Avant garde Speakers should fit well to 2K to 20k or do i need a more open horn ?
I dont think that using only the horn is a good idea. The interface between the driver and air is very poor with an abrupt impedance change which makes for a resonant behaviour probably. Also diffraction will be present. Why? Use a a small waveguide/horn if you only need it for high frequencies - probably much better.
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TNT, not sure why I can't quote your post. What is probably much better? Probably much better than what?
A small horn is better than no horn.
(If you mark some text, you will see that a question comes up about of you want to use the selected text in a quote...)
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PS. Aha - now I see my error and how that became really confusing - "I dont think that using only the horn is a good idea"
I wrote "horn" instead of "driver".... sorry!
(If you mark some text, you will see that a question comes up about of you want to use the selected text in a quote...)
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PS. Aha - now I see my error and how that became really confusing - "I dont think that using only the horn is a good idea"
I wrote "horn" instead of "driver".... sorry!
Depends on the listening distance and position. I prefer a wider horn flare for the midfield listening as it fills the room in a more pleasant way. I don't like extensive horn loading -- a squashed throat / horn opening -- or a narrow horn flare as I find both quite audible in a negative way. A waveguide -- a horn with gentler loading and flare enhances the sound in a positive way. High sensitivity speakers -- ie a two way horn compression driver system crossed 400hz -- have the advantage of not necessitating excessive reliance on gain stages to power the drivers resulting in insertion loss and information loss. For a puristic audio setup, especially if analog is a primary format though I consider this somewhat impractical, this is a very elegant way to go. I find 700hz to 1200hz a good range for crossing a horn in a two way system. The CP755ND HF108 and BMS 4225 are convenient choices as they play to 20khz. The CP755ND is my preference. With highly efficient power and cost effective class d amps it is easy to deliver ample power to the woofers. Then pick the flavor of amp you prefer for the high efficiency cd horn hf section which doesn't necessitate nearly as much power. I prefer the simplicity and sonically direct nature of this design not necessitating a massive horn to achieve a low crossover frequency compared with attempting to go as low as one can with the crossover frequency. That said, if a driver existed that could easily operate linearly from ~350hz to 20khz I would happily experiment with such a device. In addition it may be worth your while to add a mid range driver into the mix to cover a range from 100hz-1khz or so depending on what you are doing.
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