Hi All! I am looking for advice on a project that I have coming up. I am setting up and building out a DJ and live music venue, and being a fan of horn loudspeakers, got to thinking about building a really big horn sub (or two) into the stage as part of the build. I will need to build the stage and support it anyway, and thought that I could build the supports in a way that would configure the interior walls of the horn. The stage will be 30" tall, and will be 20' across and 11' deep. I would like to have the frequency response be at least -3DB at 20 HZ, but lower would be nice, and I am hoping to cross over to horn based mains at around 60 HZ. The available space will be 2.5' X 11' X 20'. This should be enough room to build two, with the openings being on the 20' front of the stage towards the outsides where the main L and R speakers will be placed. I was thinking I could use DSP on the the horn subs to time align them with the mains. I have a couple of 18 inch subs pulled from a pair of Energy ES-18XL subwoofers on hand, but am willing to buy something else if these won't do. The venue is around 2400 square feet with 11.5' ceilings. Is this crazy? I have been looking online for examples of this but haven't found any yet. Any advice on how best to do this, and opinions on its feasibility would be much appreciated.
What's the budget?
I will distribute that in to
Drivers, amps,DSP ,wood and the extras like the speaker and cabinet hardware and the primer paint and your choice polyurea finish and or bed liner or duratex.
From there it will more easy for experienced members here to recommend you designs that fit closely or adjust to taste.
Maybe some Bertha's style horns with the trending driver for high power applications
B&C 18SW115
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No set budget yet. I'm more interested in the viability of the idea. It seems that it is viable based on Planet10 and AllenB's posts. I don't think it would require a high power driver based on what I've seen from other horn based systems, but I'm all ears.
AllenB thanks for the photos! The first two look like what I had in mind. Is there any additional information on those builds?
They are Le Cleac'h horns, side by side like this...
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/jean-michel-on-lecleach-horns.140190/post-1832594
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/jean-michel-on-lecleach-horns.140190/post-1832594
Thanks for the link. I had a read through a chunk of the thread, and it reminded that I had played with the Le Cleac'h spreadsheet a few years back while toying with the idea of building a large mid horn that would go down to 200 HZ or so. The thread is both interesting and informative. It seems that my intended use of the bass horn below 60 HZ may be workable with the Le Cleac'h profile, but that it isn’t strictly necessary to use as refined a profile in my case because of the limited frequency range intended. Is this correct? It would be much easier not to have to build the curved profile.
High power , medium power , low power is relative, compared to what will give a tangible dimension , but you need a budget regardless.
How much are you willing to invest in parts and materials.
It's like an exponential horn only it loads more consistently, it terminates more smoothly. Yes you should be able approximate the profile with straight sections with some care, especially at lower frequencies.
I have the amps and DSP/crossover already, and the stage is part of the build out and has been accounted for elsewhere in the budget. The only incremental cost is some extra wood and drivers, but I do have the two 18” subs and four Klipsch K-33 on hand. If I had to, I could put another 2-3K in for drivers, but I’d rather not…
I love the idea of the Le Cleac'h, and a double Le Cleac'h would fit the bill, but straight sections would be much easier to execute. Would Hornresp allow me to sim a horn of this size? I have it on my PC but have not used it for a very long time, so I would need to relearn it. Is anyone out there who is already familiar with Hornresp willing to give it a go for me? Available dimensions are going to be internal of about 26”X19’X11-13’ (.66cmX580cmX335-396cm) The depth is not fixed, so it can be varied between 11-13 feet. Everything above 60Hz or so will be handled by the main speakers on stage. This could be varied as well from 50-100HZ. The priority is low frequencies as the speakers above (likely La Scala or Khorns, although I’m pushing for Jubilees) will take care of the rest.
yes as others have pointed out the fundamental idea works and has been done before, I even think at one point Fabric room one was using such an under stage arrangement?
The horn should have a hyperbolic expansion rule (or Le Cleac'h if its simlar to exponential) and you should use better drivers than the ones you have on hand. B&C SW/DS series 18/21" are a good bet. I would also consider using more than one driver per horn feeding a common throat, clubs require often very high bass SPL.
The horn should have a hyperbolic expansion rule (or Le Cleac'h if its simlar to exponential) and you should use better drivers than the ones you have on hand. B&C SW/DS series 18/21" are a good bet. I would also consider using more than one driver per horn feeding a common throat, clubs require often very high bass SPL.
kipman725 it will be a Japanese style listening room rather than a club, with emphasis on sound quality rather than what is typically important for clubs. With the possible exception of the bass horn under the stage, amplification will be based on single ended triode amps of a maximum of 20 watts per channel or so. Main speakers will be all horn and somewhere between 104-111 DB/W/M sensitivity. The goal isn’t really SPL per se. I am familiar with sound set ups in nightclubs, having worked in the bar industry for many years, but I won’t be running the system at the SPL typical for nightclub set ups. Also, the room is around 2400 square feet with 11.5’ ceiling height, so not very big by nightclub standards. Capacity is likely to be much lower than typical nightclubs that would have people standing with little seating. The plan is to have most of the clientele seated. It will be more of a lounge than a nightclub.
It appears to be. mm and m are standard units but people like to use cm. Hornresp uses cm. Also, notice the roundback is a compromise. This is OK at bass but I'm particular about Le Cleac'h being in free space at high frequencies.
Consider the highest frequency you'll be asking it to handle. Straight sections that are acoustically small compared to this should be a place to start. I'd draw the sectioned walls onto a plot of the smooth horn to see it looks like an acceptable compromise to the expansion.
You'll have to decide on a horn cutoff frequency and a T factor.
Consider the highest frequency you'll be asking it to handle. Straight sections that are acoustically small compared to this should be a place to start. I'd draw the sectioned walls onto a plot of the smooth horn to see it looks like an acceptable compromise to the expansion.
You'll have to decide on a horn cutoff frequency and a T factor.
bitSmasher: I hadn’t thought of that. Do you think that my proposed setup will differ much for bands from having freestanding bass units on the stage? I expect that bands will be a small part of business, with the majority being music played from a booth not located oon the stage.