Yup. Usual suppose this and imagine that instead of measure this and explain that.
Don't recall that showing close-in noise around the skirts of a spectral peak (i.e signal correlated noise). It takes a very high resolution FFT to see the skirts clearly, and the appearance is non-quantitative. To get an idea of whether or not its a problem one may have compare with the skirts of a known clean circuit. This was known to be a factor in voltage regulator noise for the Vref supply in Topping D90 dac. It can happen, and it has been known to happen in circuits sensitive to AC power cords.
And now, power cords influence on signal or noise is in the narrow noise skirts several Hz wide at -120 dB?
Really?
Carry on and add next FUD story.
I am surprised you can do any projects at all, as of this point in time you have posted 14,034 messages onto this DIY audio forum...
Your funny 🙂
Those are your words and not mine, as you well know. IIRC you have used a strawman before, probably more than once.
Otherwise, please provide a link to a post in the present discussion by me using the words, "several Hz wide at -120dB."
True. In the UK they give a whole list of ratings for the standard cables we use. Depending on whether it's in free air, nailed to a joist, behind insulation, accessible, inaccessible and so on and so forth. Also as you point out their long term load capacity and their short term.
I have a single piece of 2.5mm2 twin and earth going to the garage. I always thought 2.5mm2 "singled" was 15A rated, 20A max. As for the usual (here) 30Amp plug ring you have 2 x 2.5mm in parallel. I was concerned with running both the washing machine and the tumble dryer off the double plug. I mentioned it to the "trained spark" and he said, "no, 2.5mm2 spur can handle the full 26Amps of a double plug use away.".
I think he's maybe short cutting a lot of the regulations there TBH. I think there is quite a lot of documentation and calculations to working out what total amperage you can put on a cable, based on where it travels and how long it is etc.
I've run both high power devices for 2 or 3 hours and the 2.5mm2 cable was "warm", but maybe 40*C. What I can't tell however is what temperature the cable is as it passes through a tight bit of plastic conduit under the brick work.
I'm a fool to translate BS into AWG. However I'd call that #14. We used a lot of that. When done in pre-War rubber it is good for 15 Amps anywhere in a house. In modern plastic, significantly more, usually limited by legacy cheap insulation devices (these do melt). If run in asbestos in free air inside a cooker, very much more. Bundles and thermal insulation matter, though NEC assumes that heat may conduct a foot or more away from a pinch-passage. Yeah, all exposed and ring-mained, 26A seems low-risk to me.
My dad designed electrical systems for mostly non-residential buildings in Canada (Ontario chiefly) his entire career.
Design minimums were set by the Ontario Electrical Safety Code but prudent application of conductor ampacity always included derating -- load allowances -- and as an engineer who took his responsibilities seriously he generally played it safe when matching protection (circuit breakers) with conductors. So 12 AWG RW90 conductors -- which the Code rated at 20A in a conduit containing no more than three wires -- were always protected by a 15A breaker and the load those wires carried calculated accordingly.
Design minimums were set by the Ontario Electrical Safety Code but prudent application of conductor ampacity always included derating -- load allowances -- and as an engineer who took his responsibilities seriously he generally played it safe when matching protection (circuit breakers) with conductors. So 12 AWG RW90 conductors -- which the Code rated at 20A in a conduit containing no more than three wires -- were always protected by a 15A breaker and the load those wires carried calculated accordingly.
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In this case it's a after-build add-on spur. Straight off the mains ring. Goes through a wall, under a but of concrete tiling over an arch and into the garage where it's nailed to a joist.
The house is 1960s. It's been rewired or at least modded before. There are plugs which look original and plugs where are not. It needs a rewire ultimately. It only has a single plug ring for the whole house (including the kitchen but not the cooker/oven) and garage and the boiler runs off that circuit too. Not ideal. It IS thankfully modern grey PVC like flat solid core twin and earth through out. No rubber or black fabric cable has been found!
On that single ring, which used to have the 13Amp water heater on it. It's got a 30A breaker. It runs every single plug in the house and garage and the boiler. I asked the trained spark about this and he said, "You'll pop it if you go about trying, but I doubt you'll pop it day to day."... he's been right so far.
Rewire is £2000-4000. It's not even on the radar for the budget 🙂 Rewiring the garage might be though. As far as I'm concerned and mostly how building control see it, the garage is an outhouse and many regulations just dont apply.
I've just noted two parts in bold. I will also be a pedant again and point out that its not 'line ground' it's 'protective earth'
Now the reason I noted the bold text is that something does not add up. And external filter will not do anything to the PE line other than try and send noise down it. If it does then it's reducing the life saving properties of the earth connection. So I am stuck for a mechanism by which you had ground coupled noise and the filter did anything. Which suggests something else at play?
A little thought experiment. If you were to connect all your audio equipment to an isolating transformer with no connections from outside the protected area then you wouldn't need any earth connections. So where would all this noise go?
Likely there is. Would like to think about it a bit more. Multiple sources of AC line related noise have been observed, ground loops, antenna effects, etc.
BTW, don't know if you saw it but jneutron described some nanometer position sensors that use double shielded cable for noise immunity. One shield is grounded at both ends, the other shield only at one end. When multiple cables were run through a conduit (presumably in a thick shield wall) the ground current fields from adjacent cables interfered with signal integrity. What was the fix? IIRC he said what worked was to disconnect all the shields! So much for the model of one cable in isolation.
What´s your point?
I see you are desperately searching all over the place, trying to find ammo for your arguments.
Then you twist and misapply anything you find, with the wishful thinking it will help you..
Straw argument. Zero Logical value.
In fact, it´s a well known Logic Fallacy.
You want us to "imagine" something so you can argue against it.
It´s the other way : universal Experience is that PCC (short for Power Cords and Conditioners which has gotten boring and repetitive) do not affect sound.
YOU (and a few snake oil salesmen, including Shunyata and Rick Miller) claim the contrary.
It´s up to YOU to provide the carefully controlled published studies in your favour. Capisce?
Ridiculous.
You demand of us what you will never ever provide.
Hey, we are sweating blood just to see a picture of your imaginary Audio System.
Start by showing yours.
See above.
WHICH receiving end?
You only supplied Straw Arguments so far.
You never ever produced any kind of proof, what are you talking about?
I will disagree. The experience is not universal, that's nothing more than your take on it. However, you are probably partly right. Many, maybe even most, power conditioners do not usefully affect sound. The used ones I got from ebay do, and do so quite well. You can deny it if you want, and apparently you do want. Probably nothing anyone can do to get you to listen for yourself. Presumably then you will continue with the polemic rants. You do know you are more extreme than most normal people, right?
Yes I have read most of the things John has posted. His focus on impedance control and loop area would be worth consideration by people before they throw flooby dust at their systems.
Your "trolling" is 32738 times more serious and productive than the Shunyata nonsense. 🙂
By the way, I am quite certain future searches of the word Shunyata will lead here, with the ensuing ridicule and sales loss.
As of Moon-Earth voltage, why not?
There s no physical reason NOT to have one; in fact I expect some Astrophysicist must have calculated it, if not actually measured it.
haven´t read about that but imagine lots of "small details", such as:
* it being a somewhat local phenomenon, near Earth surface.
* much variation between near surface and the near deep space vacuum "filling" mot of the path, but hey.... be my guest.
In principle, I would expect a DC static field.
Not discarding AC but then frequencies involved would be loooooowwwwww, better expressed as time constants measured in days of weeks (on the order or Planetary orbits and self rotations) than "Human scale" 50/60 Hz
Again, waiting for somebody to post measured results.
Once more with the snake oil salesman reply "I hear a difference". Prove it. After reading the same BS in dozens if not hundreds of your posts, that everything makes a difference with no proof, its time for the ignore button. What a waste of time.
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