Any speaker that disappears in the room is good for me. Some are better. Opinions differ. I can enjoy a variety of system types that do this.
The LS3/5A's have no real low bass; they weren't meant to have any real low bass. I try to not get too focused on cone materials any more, though my own tendencies in the last decade have leaned toward paper; just a self observation.
I thought the goal of the board is possibilities to "cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way"; for a monitoring system. With modern monitoring requirements, especially with electronic music and effects heavy movies, no 2-way can do it fully - my opinion of course.
As you stated, "Everything is relative and I make a clear distinction between end-uses and objectives, roughly: casual music 'experience' vs more studio monitoring-like purposes" - Agreed. But, I think a more ambitious goal is to make a system that works for both. Perhaps a judicious use of tone control is enough In a system that comes close; a preset 1 and preset 2.
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Krivium posted several comments in the past about the skills of a mixing/mastering engineer to achieve good results with almost any monitor speaker.
Yep! "It's not the plane. It's the pilot". However, the pilot must be aware of the planes limitations, and his own limitations, lest he tailspin into the 'circle of confusion'.
A better monitor still makes things easier and less exhausting. Intelligibility before volume.
The stands are pretty heavy. 10guage steel. The horn is heavy. Approximately 3" thick walls. Maybe 65lbs each without driver 🤷🏽♂️
Compare n contrast to my design. Just imagine the my horns are there 🤔
Pretty impressive! But for decent bass boxes, this should not be a dangerous load))
Where do we think is the biggest source of vibration? The Compression Driver or the woofers below?
The 2509 stands are not going to work with a 65 pound horn hanging in front of the pivot points.
Just screw the lower yoke portion of the stand to the center of balance on the sides of the 3" thick walled horn/driver combo, and be done with it.
Cabinet vibrations? Once the yoke is screwed to the mid cabinet, it won't move.
I never thought about using just the lower parts of the jbl stand. I wouldn't try to Hang a horn, this big, any way. I pictured the front of the Horn resting on the top of the mid cabinet. The horn stand would be fastened to the mid cabinet. Bad idea? Maybe place pillow between the horn mouth and the mid cabinet?
All of the drivers are "sources" of vibration - that's how they generate sound. The issue is resonances in the mounting structure as these will suck out radiated sound causing dips and peaks in the response. A 65 lb horn on a steel bracket - as shown - is going to have lots of resonances.
And a "pillow" won't work. I'd rigidly fix the front of the horn as well as using the bracket, but then I might also dampen the bracket as metal just likes to ring.
To be able to physically finely adjust time-alignment between the horn and woofer, one can mount the horn on top to a manual single-axis machinist slide.
https://www.sherlineipd.com/6550inst.pdf
https://www.sherlineipd.com/6550inst.pdf
What if I create mounts in the front and rear that suspend the horn in the air? Leather straps maybe?
On second thought, I do see a way to fix the front to the midwoofer cab... with some modifications maybe the jbl stand will be suffice for a rear fixture.
On second thought, I do see a way to fix the front to the midwoofer cab... with some modifications maybe the jbl stand will be suffice for a rear fixture.
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There are plenty of speakers with the tweeter horns mounted in the box. Is this really a problem? Any data to backup one side or the other?
The way to mount a horn is to a sufficiently rigid/massive baffle or make a horn terminus that is one, which just as I started to post this, up popped a pic of the latter! 😎 👍
Not really, can't imagine any good reason not to do it, just ideally need to properly mount it and damp it against reflections off the woofer, box and depending on the horn design, may need to mass load it to move its resonance below the horn's intended BW.
Thanks GM. If the horn is mounted in an internally damped and rigid, separate box, would that do? Or, perhaps just a stiff baffle and mounting cradle? Some horns are free with minimal mounting. Some in the same box. Some in separate boxes. Some hanging by threads. Outside of keeping bass from vibrating the mounted horn structure, I'm not sure I understand all the fuss unless the horn is metal. Different drivers are mounted in all kinds of speakers.
Adding a small amount of mass deadens my horn's structure. Just laying the edge on a flat surface deadens the structure.
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You're welcome!
You can if you want, even overkill it with sand filled as some have done, but FWIW, I've built numerous (stock, 'improved', major modded) replicas of the W.E./Lansing/Altec Iconic (aka Valencia) studio monitor/consumer speaker and similar and no need for better mounting of the 811 (or larger 511 on some other models) welded up two piece cast potted metal horn that 'rings like a ten penny nail struck with a ball peen hammer' in free air, but with its rigid flange/baffle and wooden block/metal clamp to the rear mounting tab it's a very deep/dull 'thud', so all that's needed is to add damping against any reflections.
That said, when these horns are only mounted on one side of the flange they ideally need to have the top of the mouth/terminus's depression filled with something massive to finish damping them.
Historically, some horns do need bracing to stiffen them though if not in a sand or similar filled box, i.e. an extreme example is the early multicells that were encased in a tin 'skin' and hot tar was poured in to fill up all the cavities, then later coated with a special sand? (I forget now) loaded sprayed on coating since the tar filled were so heavy/costly that among other considerations required a block & tackle to hoist them atop the huge Cinema Palace bass horn cabs.
You can if you want, even overkill it with sand filled as some have done, but FWIW, I've built numerous (stock, 'improved', major modded) replicas of the W.E./Lansing/Altec Iconic (aka Valencia) studio monitor/consumer speaker and similar and no need for better mounting of the 811 (or larger 511 on some other models) welded up two piece cast potted metal horn that 'rings like a ten penny nail struck with a ball peen hammer' in free air, but with its rigid flange/baffle and wooden block/metal clamp to the rear mounting tab it's a very deep/dull 'thud', so all that's needed is to add damping against any reflections.
That said, when these horns are only mounted on one side of the flange they ideally need to have the top of the mouth/terminus's depression filled with something massive to finish damping them.
Historically, some horns do need bracing to stiffen them though if not in a sand or similar filled box, i.e. an extreme example is the early multicells that were encased in a tin 'skin' and hot tar was poured in to fill up all the cavities, then later coated with a special sand? (I forget now) loaded sprayed on coating since the tar filled were so heavy/costly that among other considerations required a block & tackle to hoist them atop the huge Cinema Palace bass horn cabs.
Awesome! You? Well, I had a momentary lapse of reason, but I kept them. Still happy with the performance.
I am patiently waiting to see how camplo's rig turns out...