That's not exactly the point I was making. My point was that not everyone buys things because they are "the best" in terms of pure numbers - most of us probably really don't if we're honest (certainly not in all types of purchases). The ASD reviews (and ASD itself) seem to start from that assumption and it is IMO so flawed that it is the principal reason why I don't go there. An AP analyzer is a fantastic tool for designers and engineers, but thinking that it is the ultimate arbiter of Quality in an audio-product is somewhere between naive and stupid if you ask me (and I know you didn't 😉 )
Also, re: your comment on SOTA: A brand new expensive mechanical watch (or car, or...) is not necessarily "state of the art" in any way and what you consider to be "immaculate" in terms of construction and execution may be very different from what I feel. Nearly all types of products that marketing-people would call "high-involvement" (= the stuff that you take time and effort to research and look into before you buy it) has manufacturers that do not sell on pure performance, but several other different parameters. Last, but not least: If you're into any hobby (audio, watches, cars, photography, bicycles, cooking/baking, hunting/fishing ...) chances are you have at least one thing that an "average" person would consider "ridiculously overpriced for what it does" - and chances are that you don't care about their opinion 😎 .
Bottom line: You buy something if the perceived value you get out of it exceeds the price you pay - but the important thing to remember is that "perceived value" comes from many different parameters, not just lowest THD+N (or a similar number).
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You just answered somebody who recently paid 10k $ on a PL product that can't even put out the power it's specd for...
I was replying to the post by the member dreamth, who was comparing Benhmark HPA4 to Pass HPA-1.
You are referencing to "the best bang for the bucks", which is very different comparison.
You should read again what everyone wrote about...
Tpa6120 is not just the best bang for the buck...it had proven to give the best possible results with 99.9999999 % of the entire world market's headphones .
Tpa6120 is not just the best bang for the buck...it had proven to give the best possible results with 99.9999999 % of the entire world market's headphones .
Can't be much fun to know you are absolutely right only to have the world carry on utterly oblivious to your existence.
The world don't care about audio...there are right now 10 million people in ukraine that care for electricity gas and watter, some other hundred of millions in need for cheaper gas and electricity in Europe to be able to pass the winter without huge debts to the banks, some hundred millions in USA in need for cheaper gasoline only to get to their jobs and back and put a meal on the table, another hundreds of millions people in Africa that need food only to survive the next day...
What would you consider the most important parameter for a audio device to be judged at?
Most important is how that audio component will sound in my system, in my room. That is what ultimately counts.
Since this is not possible or practical to know before the purchase, we have measurements to orient on. It takes some experience to learn how to interpret measuremens. And even then there is a risk of misjudgement.
Experienced DIYer may judge by examining internals. Quality and quantity of parts. Also mode of operation might tell alot.
Back to measurements, I think all measurements are important. Importance of parameter depends on the type of audio device (e.g. RIAA pream or power amp).
For power amps I think IMD at realistic volume level (usually 2-3W) is strong (but not ultimate) indicator.
That seems to me also the most important parameter.
This is, apart from the measurements, what the reviewer from Audio Science Review has to say about that parameter relating to the Pass Labs HPA-1 :
"I can't express enough how the HPA-1 ruined the sound of the two headphones I tested with it. Had this been my only experience, I would have thought neither headphone is any good! This mirage of more distortion is good for you needs to go go away and commitment to fidelity restored. Or else show me one controlled blind test that shows there is real benefit here. Folks need to stop buying into stories that worse fidelity makes things sound better. It doesn't."
So he correlates the bad measurements with the bad sounding but it still subjective of course.
chip_mk: "Most important is how that audio component will sound in my system, in my room. That is what ultimately counts."
That's of course the final judgement. But it seems then that all the reviews objective, subjective or a mix are a bit useless. You should have at least then a kind of inter-subjectivity for let say 50 users to make some kind of valid statement about the quality of a product. These kind of discussions also took place with the Levinson gear at the end of the seventies and the beginning of the eighties. As long as the reviewers of subjective magazines like TAS praised their products everything was okay of course and the reviewers were hitting the mark of course. When reviewers were critical about a component Mark Levinson (the man) stated "Well our buyers seems to like the product so are you saying they are all wrong?". Then he was called arrogant and a kind of Guru with a keen sense of hyper marketing skills. Nothing really changed. Expensive products will always attract a critical eye and manufacturers of these products should be frank and open about these critical reviews and see them as an opportunity to improve their products even further.
What bad measurements?
Let me be clear, Amir's subjective assesment is valid and I take it quite seriously. Yet there are some positive listening tests to, so I don't know if it's good or bad. To be honest the price is far beyond my budget so I don't care much. It's only of academic interest to me.
But, for the matter of fact I got to notice this. Since recently a typical objectivist would fircely argue that THD below 0.1% can not be detected in DBT. But now 0.007% is poor! Then they would claim hardly anybody hears above 16kHz and certainly not beyond 20kHz, but now -0.1dB @ 20kHz is objectional. Even -100dB hum I would say, although not stelar, is probably not noticeable except with very sensitive headphones.
Looks to me that amp measures very well. Low distortion in general, mainly second harmonic, very little third. What's not to like.
I have nor heard it, i wish i had, so i can not comment on sound.
But the measurements look very good to me.
I have nor heard it, i wish i had, so i can not comment on sound.
But the measurements look very good to me.
Haven't compared the two but here is Stereophile's write-up:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-24-pass-labs-hpa-1-headphone-amplifier
https://www.stereophile.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-24-pass-labs-hpa-1-headphone-amplifier
Of course distortion that matters is the acoustic distortion which was not measured. Measured voltage distortion at output of amplifier does not correlate linearly with resulting acoustic distortion.
I build ACP+, twice, because it sounds so great, as headphone amp, and preamp. I certainly like small amount of 2nd harmonics.
I assume hpa-1 will be similar.
I assume hpa-1 will be similar.
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