In the process of making my own design with components made in U.S.A as one of my guidelines (hope thats not considered political?) Just got a smokin deal on 12 of these custom ordered eminence 10” (based on delta 10b) with cast frame/altered specs. (see pic below for specs.)
These model in a sealed 2 ft3 box (see pic below for curve) perfectly for 60hz hp and 1400hz(+/-) lp
plan to use them with n314x-8/h14ea combo……and maybe a ported lab12 bass bottom (as in stackable)
Then it dawns on me that these 10” custom specs kindly lend themselves to a TL setup, i’m slightly versed in how they work (have read some Martin King and others stuff) and seeing as how i have enough woofers to make 3 pairs of mtm’s why not try some different stuff and choose/keep whats best for my room and sell the others locally.
So question is can the collective knowledge here help guide me in getting a TL box going? See pic below for what i’m thinking (imagine the tweeter as a horn!)
i need to know the desired bottom limit and then base length on 1/4 wave, is there a way to calculate bottom useable frequency from driver specs? I’ve read (unless i interpreted wrong) that you will get 1/2 as much of driver fs lower? Also port opening needs to be equal to sd of both drivers? Also that tapered works better for resonances but is more complicated to get right?
I read if you taper (big chamber to smaller exit) it needs to be 3:1 so if straight with 3 channels (as in pic) would it go 3-2-1 ratio? And is there a formula for starting/main chamber size?
Thx Bob
These model in a sealed 2 ft3 box (see pic below for curve) perfectly for 60hz hp and 1400hz(+/-) lp
plan to use them with n314x-8/h14ea combo……and maybe a ported lab12 bass bottom (as in stackable)
Then it dawns on me that these 10” custom specs kindly lend themselves to a TL setup, i’m slightly versed in how they work (have read some Martin King and others stuff) and seeing as how i have enough woofers to make 3 pairs of mtm’s why not try some different stuff and choose/keep whats best for my room and sell the others locally.
So question is can the collective knowledge here help guide me in getting a TL box going? See pic below for what i’m thinking (imagine the tweeter as a horn!)
i need to know the desired bottom limit and then base length on 1/4 wave, is there a way to calculate bottom useable frequency from driver specs? I’ve read (unless i interpreted wrong) that you will get 1/2 as much of driver fs lower? Also port opening needs to be equal to sd of both drivers? Also that tapered works better for resonances but is more complicated to get right?
I read if you taper (big chamber to smaller exit) it needs to be 3:1 so if straight with 3 channels (as in pic) would it go 3-2-1 ratio? And is there a formula for starting/main chamber size?
Thx Bob
Attachments
Any links? Was hoping maybe some kind soul with experience in such things might be inclined to hold my hand through the darkness! This will probably be a one off thing for me and computers aren’t exactly my strong suit!🙂
Thanks for the link Arez, only it doesn't work for me. I have a different number of posts per page as a setting and there are only 20 pages in that thread.
You can always get the correct link out of the post number...
Link worked for me Allen?
Thanks folks, alas windows seems to be all i can find for this and i’m stuck at 10.13 mac os ………anything that might work with that?
I suppose first and foremost, does this even look like its worth the effort?
Thanks folks, alas windows seems to be all i can find for this and i’m stuck at 10.13 mac os ………anything that might work with that?
I suppose first and foremost, does this even look like its worth the effort?
MacOS is a take on BSD so I presume WINE would work. I think planet10 knows others. (PS: I've used hornresp under WINE before.)
Then you must each be using the default 20 posts/page. That's what makes this idiosyncrasy so insidious 😉
Yeah and i have the default? 20 posts pr page. Anyways the last given link there or search on google takes you here:
https://transmission-line2.software.informer.com/
Also here you can dowload the original files, or older versions using archive.org. if you have issues to make it work, that's how i got mine to run. Version 3.6.3.5 is the latest version.
see post #940. in previous linked thread
https://web.archive.org/web/20170506211617/http://leonardaudio.co.uk/transmission-line/download/
https://web.archive.org/web/20161204124932/http://www.leonardaudio.co.uk/software/setup.exe
Bug fix list for all versions
https://web.archive.org/web/20170516170631/http://leonardaudio.co.uk/
Latest user manual v. 3.6.3.4
https://web.archive.org/web/2016120...k/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/TL-UserGuide.pdf
I run it on Win 7, have'nt tried it on 10/11 actually
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I assume he means a Windows Emulator, running a windows emulator on your Mac to use software is quite common sadly 🙂
And that works for hornresp too.
Here is also a nice Hornresp tutorial from the forum 🙂
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/an-improved-transmission-line-alignment.243483/
As long as the Windows software is well behaved it will run. The high-end supported version of WINE is Crossover. It does not run the one single Windoz program i use. There is also Parallels, and the free SUN software will run actual Windows.
It should be noted that Windoz probabaly runs faster on the faster of the new Mx processors running under Parallels using the Rosetta x86 emulator.
dave
OK, well before i get into this too deep could someone who’s in the know maybe give me a heads up if those specs are worthy of pursuing a TL style of box? It models well as sealed crossing to a sub and doing that is well within my wheelhouse of capabilities……..just trying to expand my horizons a little. 😎
Did I mention my computer skills suck?……..it took me 3 hours to get REW working, and that was for mac os! 😵
Did I mention my computer skills suck?……..it took me 3 hours to get REW working, and that was for mac os! 😵
Would this work? https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/spicytl-transmission-line-simulation-model.365782/
I suspect the fact that these are custom spec woofers have something to do with the overwhelming love! 😳
What if i were to offer up a set (4) of these to a qualified* individual for free (maybe some help with shipping would be nice) to do a ‘buddy build’ of sorts?
* qualified meaning someone here with known design and build experience, that has the time, desire, and resources to take on such a project within a reasonable amount of time?
This would be a open source project to be documented in a thread of its own maybe conveying details in a easy to follow step by step context for folks such as myself who have technologically related learning disabilities!
If successful it is possible that more of these drivers are available, the feller involved is a Eminence dealer and has said he might be ordering another batch.
I suspect the fact that these are custom spec woofers have something to do with the overwhelming love! 😳
What if i were to offer up a set (4) of these to a qualified* individual for free (maybe some help with shipping would be nice) to do a ‘buddy build’ of sorts?
* qualified meaning someone here with known design and build experience, that has the time, desire, and resources to take on such a project within a reasonable amount of time?
This would be a open source project to be documented in a thread of its own maybe conveying details in a easy to follow step by step context for folks such as myself who have technologically related learning disabilities!
If successful it is possible that more of these drivers are available, the feller involved is a Eminence dealer and has said he might be ordering another batch.
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After reading through patrick batemans thread that arez linked (thank you btw arez) i come away with the impression that even if fluent in hornresp i’d be running into issues with the mtm aspects of offset for one, and also figuring in the ’stub’ chamber as such.
Whitedragon thanks for the tutorial but seeing how it works for the most basic straight line sub tl just firms up my inclinations of despair!
Knowing my limitations based on previous experiences with all things computer, I foresee getting into something not at all comprehensible (computer language) and something i’m ill equipped/limited for getting started into ( mac os/outdated high sierra…..which i barely know how to use) this left me with begging (a bit beneath my usual standards) bribing (but nobody seems interested in $400+ worth of free drivers in exchange for a commitment).
Moving on from here (after i get done wallowing in the shame of defeat……looks like I’d be better off sticking to what i know) let it be known I wasn’t angling towards something for nothing (firm believer in the whole teach to fish mantra) the only other thing i can come up with to offer going forward (on this particular project) is straight up $$, theres obviously several here that do this for a living……….anyone interested in taking this on please contact me via pm to discuss particulars, i’m looking for a TL box design pertaining to these particular drivers in mtm configuration with consideration of phase effects from the crossover point/type.
If after awhile there’s no interest i’ll just chalk it up as another dissipated brain fart! 🤣
edit; and yes i’m aware this diY but theres wisdom in knowing one’s limitations.
Whitedragon thanks for the tutorial but seeing how it works for the most basic straight line sub tl just firms up my inclinations of despair!
Knowing my limitations based on previous experiences with all things computer, I foresee getting into something not at all comprehensible (computer language) and something i’m ill equipped/limited for getting started into ( mac os/outdated high sierra…..which i barely know how to use) this left me with begging (a bit beneath my usual standards) bribing (but nobody seems interested in $400+ worth of free drivers in exchange for a commitment).
Moving on from here (after i get done wallowing in the shame of defeat……looks like I’d be better off sticking to what i know) let it be known I wasn’t angling towards something for nothing (firm believer in the whole teach to fish mantra) the only other thing i can come up with to offer going forward (on this particular project) is straight up $$, theres obviously several here that do this for a living……….anyone interested in taking this on please contact me via pm to discuss particulars, i’m looking for a TL box design pertaining to these particular drivers in mtm configuration with consideration of phase effects from the crossover point/type.
If after awhile there’s no interest i’ll just chalk it up as another dissipated brain fart! 🤣
edit; and yes i’m aware this diY but theres wisdom in knowing one’s limitations.
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FYI/FWIW, this driver in theory works best in an expanding taper, though most will use a constant one; your inverse tapered is best suited for BRs that require excessively long vents:
~0.403, Vb = Vas, Fb = Fs [constant tapered MLTL]
< ~0.403, Vb = < Vas, Fb = > Fs [inverse tapered MLTQWT]
~0.403, Vb = > Vas, Fb = < Fs [expanding taper MLTQWT/MLhorn]
Qts' = Qts + any added series resistance [Rs]: http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/newqts.html
An expanding TL with a set of parallel walls is parabolic, so factoring in driver depth and being at the start of the line it will become huge once long enough to reach a 1/4 WL of ~42 Hz (~205 cm axial length, ~1043 cm^2 terminus if I did the math right), so recommend doing either a TL or MLTL.
Ok, well after days of research which leads to much frustration from contradictions in terminology, differing approaches and the lack of simple calculators (I’ve downloaded lt spice and the transmission line version of it (tlspice)
I find myself totally immersed in greek and after several hours of trying to make sense of it i’m found wanting to make a nice cup of hemlock tea! So i’m at the crossroads of ‘screw it’ street and ‘beg some more’ avenue.
I’ll ask again…….is there anyone who can please help me come up with a box that might allow me to get into the f3 of 30/low 30’s range (giving some semblance of quality) with two of these 10” drivers per box?
GM mentioned expanding taper line would be best but size prohibitive……..is this the style mentioned ? (screenshot is from troels website, i dont guess it’s copyrighted?)
or if this is not going to work with these drivers and not a good idea, please say so……no hurt feelings here i’ll just use them sealed w/sub
I find myself totally immersed in greek and after several hours of trying to make sense of it i’m found wanting to make a nice cup of hemlock tea! So i’m at the crossroads of ‘screw it’ street and ‘beg some more’ avenue.
I’ll ask again…….is there anyone who can please help me come up with a box that might allow me to get into the f3 of 30/low 30’s range (giving some semblance of quality) with two of these 10” drivers per box?
GM mentioned expanding taper line would be best but size prohibitive……..is this the style mentioned ? (screenshot is from troels website, i dont guess it’s copyrighted?)
or if this is not going to work with these drivers and not a good idea, please say so……no hurt feelings here i’ll just use them sealed w/sub
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Thanks Dave, so one could block the bottom and port to the front? Of course the dimensions would all be different, was just using that troels pic as an example. Then it would become a tqwt (see pic) correct? There is a calculator for that one on the hifi audio design website……..is this the direction i should be heading?
