The key to wide stereo from a soundbar is strong energy on the left and right axis and reduced energy in the seating area. Precedence effect is your enemy so you need to reduce the direct path (90 degrees to bar axis) and increase energy directed to the side walls. I tried to aim for about 20 dB of directivity, made more difficult because that path is longer(out to the walls and back) and you also lose some from the surface absorption. In truth, it is easy to get sufficient directivity from 1000 Hz and up, but difficult below.
As far as I know most sound bar arrays have a directivity that is a solid of rotation around their long axis. No particular good reason to go from line array to plane.
As far as I know most sound bar arrays have a directivity that is a solid of rotation around their long axis. No particular good reason to go from line array to plane.
Yes, you want the overall pressure at the listening position to be close to a flat response (perhaps "tilted" down or not depending on the rest of the bandwidth) - but you want direct sound (particularly at higher freq.s) "shaded" without inducing high amplitude narrow-band diffraction (that you would also "attach"/"lock on" to).
Quite some time ago on another thread I'd mentioned to forum member Marcus that he should toe-OUT his Gedlee Abbys (compression loaded OS profile waveguides) until he couldn't see (literally) the compression driver itself (while also moving the speakers closer together to maintain center "fill"). Doing this not only makes reproduced sources/"images" move to the left of the left speaker and right of the right speaker (depending on recording), but also "free's" them from any sort of *attachment to the loudspeakers themselves. ..at the same time however it "kills" subjective pinpoint lateral position and replaces it with something more real (larger in apparent dimension).
*basically it becomes difficult to locate where the sound is coming from. (..and as I've also mentioned in other threads, I think that an uninterrupted pressure gradient has more to do with normal acoustic location beyond the nearfield than what most of the past research has proposed - excepting strong delay/phase alterations.)
You have to be careful though with how low in freq. you do this - as it does reduce monophonic emphasis which tends to reduce apparent depth of "image" placement. I don't think however that this is necessarily a bad thing with TV because most of that content isn't concerned with depth (behind the TV).
Interesting.
I once had a discussion with Aspen Pitman ( at the time he shut off Groove Tube and got rid of a number of his personal tube collection, iirc he was consultant for Fender) where he talked about an ( instrument) amplifier ( combo) where he achieved stereo fx from a 'regular' looking instrument box. He didn't wanted to tell much about how he achieved this and I did not heard this amp (and never seen one so it might not have been produced at all), but he might have investigated same thing discussed here.
I don't know if soundbar are the future but the principles behind them have to be studied for sure, there might be things to learn.
I once had a discussion with Aspen Pitman ( at the time he shut off Groove Tube and got rid of a number of his personal tube collection, iirc he was consultant for Fender) where he talked about an ( instrument) amplifier ( combo) where he achieved stereo fx from a 'regular' looking instrument box. He didn't wanted to tell much about how he achieved this and I did not heard this amp (and never seen one so it might not have been produced at all), but he might have investigated same thing discussed here.
I don't know if soundbar are the future but the principles behind them have to be studied for sure, there might be things to learn.
Shower thought:
As crazy as this sounds, I'd generally argue that the best car stereos image better than the best home stereos.
The reason for this is that we know exactly where the listeners ears are, and we can use processing to get things exactly right at that one spot.
In my office I'm running an Ambio setup (with a barrier) and I notice the same thing, that the image is so hyper optimized, that moving my head even two inches makes a difference. When I'm in exactly the right spot, the image "pops" into focus.
Something that you could probably do with a soundbar, is hyper optimize it for a few spots in the room.
For instance, in my living room, there are three spots in the room that are generally occupied. I have two couches and two of those three spots are quite far off axis. I am currently doing a 3 channel setup with a Dolby PLII upmixer for this reason; if I listen in stereo I'm way too close to one speaker.
But in a car, we are also too close to one speaker, but we can get quite spectacular results using processing.
It's really eerie when you first start messing with this, using DSP delay and EQ. Delay, in particular, allows you to convincingly shift the center of the stage nearly anywhere you want it, within the bounds of the left and right speakers.
Some of the sound bar innovations could also be added "into the mix" to improve things further.
Picture a left channel and a right channel, all contained in one soundbar. Width will need to be very wide, because the width of the speakers generally defines the width of the stage. But some "ambience" drivers could be added, similar to how Bill Waslo uses ambience speakers with his Synergy Horn.
I think the key to all of this would be dialing in the EQ and the DSP for three different seats. Basically you'd have a settting for each seat, and then a "generic" one that's just plain ol' stereo.
I think it would work well, particularly since TVs are so freaken big these days. My wife kicked my Waslo Cosynes out of the living room, but I don't think she'd complain about a soundbar that's as wide as 1.5 - 2 meters.
As crazy as this sounds, I'd generally argue that the best car stereos image better than the best home stereos.
The reason for this is that we know exactly where the listeners ears are, and we can use processing to get things exactly right at that one spot.
In my office I'm running an Ambio setup (with a barrier) and I notice the same thing, that the image is so hyper optimized, that moving my head even two inches makes a difference. When I'm in exactly the right spot, the image "pops" into focus.
Something that you could probably do with a soundbar, is hyper optimize it for a few spots in the room.
For instance, in my living room, there are three spots in the room that are generally occupied. I have two couches and two of those three spots are quite far off axis. I am currently doing a 3 channel setup with a Dolby PLII upmixer for this reason; if I listen in stereo I'm way too close to one speaker.
But in a car, we are also too close to one speaker, but we can get quite spectacular results using processing.
It's really eerie when you first start messing with this, using DSP delay and EQ. Delay, in particular, allows you to convincingly shift the center of the stage nearly anywhere you want it, within the bounds of the left and right speakers.
Some of the sound bar innovations could also be added "into the mix" to improve things further.
Picture a left channel and a right channel, all contained in one soundbar. Width will need to be very wide, because the width of the speakers generally defines the width of the stage. But some "ambience" drivers could be added, similar to how Bill Waslo uses ambience speakers with his Synergy Horn.
I think the key to all of this would be dialing in the EQ and the DSP for three different seats. Basically you'd have a settting for each seat, and then a "generic" one that's just plain ol' stereo.
I think it would work well, particularly since TVs are so freaken big these days. My wife kicked my Waslo Cosynes out of the living room, but I don't think she'd complain about a soundbar that's as wide as 1.5 - 2 meters.
How about a simple 2.1 setup about 1 meter wide, 200 mm high, about 200 mm deep, with 100 mm full range at ends, and center woofer? Tweeters are optional.
40" x 8" x 8", 4" speakers, and woofers for the Imperial users.
Internal separation, and side vents can be made, the side chambers can be about 12" wide, so these are essentially speakers turned on their side and Siamesed into a common housing, the center holds the amp and woofer....
Input from set top box / FM / Bluetooth / DSP...or whatever feeds the TV.
Enough for most smallish rooms, the TDA 2030 boards are good to at least 10W or so per chip.
40" x 8" x 8", 4" speakers, and woofers for the Imperial users.
Internal separation, and side vents can be made, the side chambers can be about 12" wide, so these are essentially speakers turned on their side and Siamesed into a common housing, the center holds the amp and woofer....
Input from set top box / FM / Bluetooth / DSP...or whatever feeds the TV.
Enough for most smallish rooms, the TDA 2030 boards are good to at least 10W or so per chip.
A soundbar with 100mm full ranges would be ok. Currently I have been using some lyeco Ly-401f fullrangers in an apartment living room and they are fine without a sub.
Theyo can be found here: https://www.newark.com/dynavox/ly401f-m01/4-full-range-speaker-20-watt-6/dp/78Y7667 or at Parts Express, Newark is cheaper though.
In a deeply tuned box with eq they can play down to 35-40hz. But for higher volume or large rooms, larger woofers would be needed to avoid distortion due to xmax limitation.
In my experience, I’ve never heard a soundbar that can rival larger speakers. Soundbars in my opinion are good for tv’s with lousy speakers. But I would rather listen to an open baffle with 3 15’s per side. There is no replacement for displacement lol. Concerning the new tv’s with the screen being a part of the speaker, I have heard a Sony Bravia tv and it’s a lot better than a lot of tv’s with the typical small speakers. I don’t think the Sony needs a soundbar, but I’d rather listen to music through regular speakers.
Theyo can be found here: https://www.newark.com/dynavox/ly401f-m01/4-full-range-speaker-20-watt-6/dp/78Y7667 or at Parts Express, Newark is cheaper though.
In a deeply tuned box with eq they can play down to 35-40hz. But for higher volume or large rooms, larger woofers would be needed to avoid distortion due to xmax limitation.
In my experience, I’ve never heard a soundbar that can rival larger speakers. Soundbars in my opinion are good for tv’s with lousy speakers. But I would rather listen to an open baffle with 3 15’s per side. There is no replacement for displacement lol. Concerning the new tv’s with the screen being a part of the speaker, I have heard a Sony Bravia tv and it’s a lot better than a lot of tv’s with the typical small speakers. I don’t think the Sony needs a soundbar, but I’d rather listen to music through regular speakers.
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The word “soundbar” is contaminated. Plasticky, thin as a candy bar, blue LEDs, awful bass, short lifespan etc.
I suggest that if you put blood, sweat and tears in a quality wooden furniture type of loudspeaker system for both TV and audio use to call it:
1. SoundBench
2. Soundmøbel
3. Soundmöbel
4. Soundbox
5. TV-Fi
6. TVeakerbox
7. ?
2 and 3 are more internationally orientated and have Ikea like naming.
Please add suggestions with a number and then let’s vote!
I suggest that if you put blood, sweat and tears in a quality wooden furniture type of loudspeaker system for both TV and audio use to call it:
1. SoundBench
2. Soundmøbel
3. Soundmöbel
4. Soundbox
5. TV-Fi
6. TVeakerbox
7. ?
2 and 3 are more internationally orientated and have Ikea like naming.
Please add suggestions with a number and then let’s vote!
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Yeah but please invent a better name voor furniture type loudspeakers with internal amplifier(s) meant for TV and possibly audio use. They’re really “hors catégorie”. Calling different items by the same name is language poverty.
8. Woodbass
Hey I am a foreigner
I already call beautiful DIY versions “soundmøbel”.
8. Woodbass
Hey I am a foreigner
I already call beautiful DIY versions “soundmøbel”.
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Hey, the German in me would call it a "Klang Stange"... or "Klang Stift"Hey I am a foreigner
10. Klangstange
11. Klangstift
12. Tone Stick
Corrected to German grammar rules. I don’t think the English speakers will give them a chance (they never do, do they?
) but who knows!? I also see I misnumbered a few.Come on guys, that many hours costing well finished soundmøbel needs a better name than the vulgar “soundbar” unless you put blue LEDs on it. Then it deserves the name “soundbar”.
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