Brett, I do own active crossovers and have used it with Tannoy Golds and HPDs. It does work out great in the configuration you mentioned. Eliminating the lower mid bass.
However, for this particular project. I wanted only one driver. The Tannoy HPD 315. Which is my favorite driver of the vintage Tannoy. It just rocks.
I wanted one Tannoy driver, and upgraded version of the passive factory crossover with a new autoformer. Which I’m using in some nice custom Canterbury clone cabinets.
it has turned out wonderful. I am extremely happy. It is exactly what I wanted for this system. Which is my main “vintage system”
I run the Tannoys with 2 strapped HK Citation V tube amps. Pushing about 100 watts strapped. They are fully rebuilt and great amps, imo. I love ‘em, that’s why I have 2! Lol
I have lots of other speakers, Tannoy and others that I will continue to play around with. I like they idea of using the MG 12” I have in a smaller cabinet with active and coming up with something for the low end. That’s the beauty of this hobby. Nothing but time to try it all!
However, for this particular project. I wanted only one driver. The Tannoy HPD 315. Which is my favorite driver of the vintage Tannoy. It just rocks.
I wanted one Tannoy driver, and upgraded version of the passive factory crossover with a new autoformer. Which I’m using in some nice custom Canterbury clone cabinets.
it has turned out wonderful. I am extremely happy. It is exactly what I wanted for this system. Which is my main “vintage system”
I run the Tannoys with 2 strapped HK Citation V tube amps. Pushing about 100 watts strapped. They are fully rebuilt and great amps, imo. I love ‘em, that’s why I have 2! Lol
I have lots of other speakers, Tannoy and others that I will continue to play around with. I like they idea of using the MG 12” I have in a smaller cabinet with active and coming up with something for the low end. That’s the beauty of this hobby. Nothing but time to try it all!
Dave. Have you tried the HPD? They dig much deeper than the Golds and earlier model Tannoy monitor.
Especially when used with good amplification. Also a cabinet that is big enough. I like 150l for the 12”.
My HPDs dig pretty deep. I doubt anyone would feel they aren’t capable of “low bass”. I am going to do some measurements, hopefully this weekend if I get the time. I know they have no prob matching my Bozak Concert Grands in how deep they go. Which is pretty darn good imo.
If I had to guess I’d say they are reaching down to 40hz as-is in sealed cabs. Haven’t figured out what I’m gonna do about the port yet. I think like any drivers, the gear behind it and the room play a big part.
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Surprising.. Over the Decades (owned Tannoys since '72) I've heard Far too many self appointed Tannoy 'experts' tout their own horns/wares.
Typically Expensive 'improvement' variations. Most all do/did this for profit motives
A very old phenomena that : Newer .. looonger.. looower, sales pitch.
Altruism had no part in this.
Naively , albeit decades ago, I Recreated a few of the loudest/more prominently shilled x over improvements.
In all candor.. to MY ears ALL proved inferior.. often Miserably so. An expensive lesson.. which even I, eventually learned.
Only thing more disappointing were /are the fanboys who continue bleat on loudly.. 'nuff said.
PS; Golds featured either pleated cone surrounds Or butyl rubber.
Both being Leagues superior to the Bio Degradable foam surrounds mandated by the Harmon International overlords in '74.
Golds X overs are point to point wired, phenolic boards are simply the mounting surface.
No poorly made PCBs there. (pre Harmon quality)
Inexpensive Tannoy fitted treble and energy switches are Far less problematic than typically claimed by those 'selling' something. .
Honestly.. how often does one fiddle with those settings ? Once maybe .. per decade or 2, If even that ?
I think I've fiddled those twice in Half a century of ownership
Quality contact cleaner is Easily as effective as a replacement minor upgrade quality switch.... Real life .
Only the Silly spring loaded speaker wire 'posts' are worth replacing out of hand.. IMO.
Agreed Bare. I’ve tried it all too and the best bet, imo, is the crossover circuit Tannoy engineers used from the factory.
it just sounds the best to these ears.
That’s why I kept what they did and just used nicer parts. Cause why not?
I also wanted point to point wiring. As I do on all my crossovers.
As the HPD crossovers are pcb, unlike the golds.
My HPDs were just refoamed and I like them. When in good shape, they really sound great.
The main disadvantage is that they fall apart and need to be replaced every decade or so.
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I designed a soffit mounted moniyor for the HPD15. That was when it became clear that a heler woofer would be a good idea.
Not the variation he built, but my favorite.
dave
Ok, what exactly are the improvements to the Tannoy crossovers that are being done? Cause “because it can be improved on” is pretty vague.
That should be an easy answer if it really is an improvement. Measurements are not hard.
I’m fully aware that many passive speaker crossovers can be improved on. However, the improvements are noted. Users make those changes for a reason.
I am not against modding or changing crossovers. Ive done it hundreds of times. To just about every speaker type out there. In each case I knew exactly what I was trying to “fix” or what the mods I was using “fixed”.
Thats my point, what exactly needs to be “fixed” in the Tannoy monitor crossovers? No one ever seems to mention that. I read vague comments about “taming Tannoy honk” or other things, but never see measurements showing it does that…
the reason the crossovers for sale online don’t use an autoformer is because they are very hard to find for Tannoys and super expensive when you do. So they substitute inductors and resistors thinking it’s “the same”. Well it isn’t and the sound isn’t better imo. The autoformer is a reactive component. It isn’t the same as what people substitute. So what are they gaining? They advertise “it’s the same as picking one setting, like flat”. Reality is, it is not like doing that on the Tannoy factory crossovers. It’s a workaround. Plain and simple.
If someone has specific data on what’s “better” about the Tannoy crossovers without autoformer. I’m all ears.
I don’t blame anyone for doing that. It’s been cheaper and easier. With Tannoy factory Autoformers basically extinct. And the price of custom wound Autoformers, I get it. I just don’t get people saying “it’s better”. With no data to back it up. Maybe I missed said data?
Another thing I also see skipped in a lot of these Tannoy crossover conversations. Is what gear is upstream? Is that gear running to spec? Or is it old/tired gear? Have the drivers been tested to ensure they are running to spec? What kind of cabinet? Room? Etc.
All of those will make huge differences to a system.
I just don’t get the reasoning behind the removal of the autoformer, other than for reasons stated above.
I also agree with Bare that the “switch issue” has been way overblown. If they are that bad, clean em or replace em.
I don’t disagree with you, Dave.
Also, I’m all about active crossovers and use them frequently. I’m planning a project for the Tannoy Gold 12” that will use active.
However, I posted in regards to the autoformer, as this current project was for a Tannoy HPD passive.
I’m strictly talking about running passive crossovers to Tannoy driver in a 1 way system. In that context, using the factory crossover circuit is the way to go imo.
To eliminate the autoformer and sub other parts just doesn’t sound as good, imo. It isn’t “the same” either.
There are a lot of crossovers for sale and that are done DIY that state it’s “better” without the autoformer. I and others disagree.
It was stated that the Tannoy passive crossovers are modded cause “they can be improved on”. I was just asking what those “improvements” were? Cause I can’t hear em or see em. So if someone has that info, I’m open…
My original intent was to let others know there are good quality options out there if they need/want a Tannoy autoformer. Cause they are hard to find. I stand by that.
I am interested in a lot of your input, and others itt as I start the next Tannoy project. Which will be less “normal” and more about maximizing what can be had from the vintage Tannoy drivers when used in multi way setups. So all input is much appreciated. I am quite enjoying this forum. Thanks to everyone.
I sold my last Tannoys a long time back, but I'd had almost all Red, Gold and NPDs and modded them all and improved them. My point was that I don't assume that a xover designed 40ya or more is somehow wonderful and can't be improved upon because some so called ex-spurt says so or they came from the factory that way so are the ultimate. Tannoy xovers are nothing special, and the enclosures are by and large awful, but changing them elicits squeals of horror from most of the Tannoy traditionalists.
Today we have a considerable number of measurement and modelling tools that were beyond dreams when the Tannoy xovers were designed, so the idea with modern tools and techniques they can't be improved is very odd to me, and goes against my long experience of designing and redesigning xovers. However, having read your posts, you seem more interested in parts than topological design. Have fun with that.
Brett, I don’t assume a 40 yr old design can’t be improved upon.I know they can and have done it as I stated.
My question to everyone saying that the Tannoy crossover can be improved and that the designs being sold are improvements, is what are those improvements? If there are so many Improvements and mods being done to the Tannoy crossovers. What are they? I’ve yet to see anyone able to state that.
I’m also well aware of the modeling tools and software out there. I use many of them. On all sorts of speakers. This isn’t my first rodeo.
Again we are speaking specifically about Tannoy crossovers and improving the factory design. Yet no one is saying what needs to be improved or what they are doing to improve it.
I also realize that the implementation of factory Tannoy crossover is nothing specially. Which is why I built a much higher quality version of that circuit. A circuit which I think is dang good, even 40 years later. Unlike many other vintage crossover circuits. The Tannoy has stood the test of time imo. So why change it? I’m only talking about that specific circuit. Which is what I’ve been talking about the whole time.
Kind of a low blow about only being concerned with “parts”. If you read my posts and that’s what you took from it. Well I don’t know what to tell ya. I did come here to post about a specific part, the autoformer which is no longer available. Giving other users a review of a source.
Also no “squeals of horror” here. Just basic questions as to why and what people are changing in an otherwise good design. Which should be a pretty easy answer. I mean it would be why someone did it to begin with. I can tell I’ve touched a nerve. I’ll go ahead and see myself out.
Happy listening everyone.
My question to everyone saying that the Tannoy crossover can be improved and that the designs being sold are improvements, is what are those improvements? If there are so many Improvements and mods being done to the Tannoy crossovers. What are they? I’ve yet to see anyone able to state that.
I’m also well aware of the modeling tools and software out there. I use many of them. On all sorts of speakers. This isn’t my first rodeo.
Again we are speaking specifically about Tannoy crossovers and improving the factory design. Yet no one is saying what needs to be improved or what they are doing to improve it.
I also realize that the implementation of factory Tannoy crossover is nothing specially. Which is why I built a much higher quality version of that circuit. A circuit which I think is dang good, even 40 years later. Unlike many other vintage crossover circuits. The Tannoy has stood the test of time imo. So why change it? I’m only talking about that specific circuit. Which is what I’ve been talking about the whole time.
Kind of a low blow about only being concerned with “parts”. If you read my posts and that’s what you took from it. Well I don’t know what to tell ya. I did come here to post about a specific part, the autoformer which is no longer available. Giving other users a review of a source.
Also no “squeals of horror” here. Just basic questions as to why and what people are changing in an otherwise good design. Which should be a pretty easy answer. I mean it would be why someone did it to begin with. I can tell I’ve touched a nerve. I’ll go ahead and see myself out.
Happy listening everyone.
Back then I did all my mods in notebooks, keeping one or more for each project and documenting it as I went along for reference. I'm not sure where these are at the moment (I have just moved house) and have done many other projects in the interim so I don't recall exactly what they consisted of in detail.
As I said, far, far more significant improvements were made from making them active 3 way over modding the stock passive or worrying about the 'quality' of the parts which I've found is really low in terms of improvement beyond the Beranek effect..
few notes that prob important and might be beneficial for whoever wanted to improve the tannoys :
1. from a few big 15" Tannoys that i have heard, i think they have issues between 1khz - 1.5khz, it is correctable with passive crossover.
2. in regards to low bass, it does seem that Tannoy prefers high sensitivity than reaching 40hz (confirmed by measurements)
1. from a few big 15" Tannoys that i have heard, i think they have issues between 1khz - 1.5khz, it is correctable with passive crossover.
2. in regards to low bass, it does seem that Tannoy prefers high sensitivity than reaching 40hz (confirmed by measurements)
Well yeah. As I mentioned, the current Tannoy project I posted about and have been talking about is a 1 way speaker. Using the Tannoy driver only.
I realize better results can be had by making a 3 way and adding woofers. That’s designing a whole entire different speaker system. Which is great and works well. As you mention. I have done that before. That was not the point of this build or post though. Which was about the factory Tannoy crossover circuit and the autoformer.
Taking a 40 yr old driver and putting it in bigger cabinets that are modern Tannoy design. Also using the factory Tannoy passive crossover circuit, but upgrading the better quality parts. Nowhere did I say that they were “magical” parts or made the sound quality improve. I am not someone who thinks passive parts are magic. However, better quality is not only about “better sound”. It’s about better made, more durable parts that should last longer if nothing else.
There is plenty of room for improvement on all passive parts. I’m not saying people need to use handmade boutique parts. But they are out there and I wanted to. I am not saying that these parts “sound better”. They are however made better most of the time. Especially the autoformer. Which has real world advantages.
People are worried so much about “switches” causing “distortion”. Yet using better quality, layout, wire, passive components and switches isn’t a good idea? Lol
Again. This project was not meant to be a 3 way. I was not designing a 3 way system. I wanted a single driver Tannoy HPD 315 speaker system. Similar to what someone would have picked up when new, but with modern parts and materials. I’m damn happy as far as that goes. These HPDs sound amazing. Exactly what I wanted from them.
I also plan to make a 3 way soon with a set of MG 12s I have. In that scenario, looking to make the best possible system using those drivers, by adding other drivers and active crossover, will make sense. There is always another audio project. I collect and restore vintage audio gear. This was just one project.
Nowhere did I say that setup I used was the best way to possibly use Tannoy drivers. I simply commented on what I did and a source for new Autoformers, as people had discussed it earlier itt.
If using only the Tannoy drivers and not adding other drivers. Then I stand by my original comment that using the factory crossover circuit is the way to go. That’s scenario removing the autoformer and replacing with inductors and resistors is not the way to go, imo. It doesn’t sound the same as it isn’t. It doesn’t sound nearly as good, imo.
Now, if someone is adding different drivers and creating a new speaker, then of course changes are needed for the crossover.
I just don’t think that changing the crossover to get rid of the autoformer in a stock Tannoy speaker, makes a lot of sense. I also don’t know what is being “fixed” in that situation.
That’s all I meant.
Hi,
Mine isn't an hpd, it's a 2046 ( 8" used into system800, the sixe,...).
As i said it is mostly about the principle you use and knowledge rather than a xover in itself ( to tell you the truth i'm a dsp user and 3way approach convinced with this drivers
that doesn't stop me to be interested in other way to deal with them though ).
Mine isn't an hpd, it's a 2046 ( 8" used into system800, the sixe,...).
As i said it is mostly about the principle you use and knowledge rather than a xover in itself ( to tell you the truth i'm a dsp user and 3way approach convinced with this drivers
that doesn't stop me to be interested in other way to deal with them though ).Thanks for the brave and honest answer. More information about the Technology can be found here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...filters-higher-than-first-order.379660/page-2
With specific questions - everyone is welcome.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...filters-higher-than-first-order.379660/page-2
With specific questions - everyone is welcome.