Hi,
I'm looking for a high dynamic range dome tweeter in a standard 104mm faceplate.
I need something that hits 110dB/1m without dynamic range compression. ie. no loss in output when compared to 80dB@1m.
Needs to be able to cross around 2KHz- 2.5KHz with 3rd order electrical filter.
I'm looking for a high dynamic range dome tweeter in a standard 104mm faceplate.
I need something that hits 110dB/1m without dynamic range compression. ie. no loss in output when compared to 80dB@1m.
Needs to be able to cross around 2KHz- 2.5KHz with 3rd order electrical filter.
Sounds like a job for a ribbon or AMT due to output required.
If not, likely the Morel 338 should be a contender.
If not, likely the Morel 338 should be a contender.
Thanks for your response Ben,
That Morel should be a fantastic tweeter, thanks for the suggestion. Before I go importing it, is there anything from the ScanSpeak or Tymphany or SB Acoustics stable that might also do it? There are available locally to me.
My current tweeter shows 2dB of compression at 96dB, and 4dB of compression at 106dB. (it's the double magnet ring radiator from V/P)
Is there a spec that I should be looking for, or do I need to measure it to know for sure?
That Morel should be a fantastic tweeter, thanks for the suggestion. Before I go importing it, is there anything from the ScanSpeak or Tymphany or SB Acoustics stable that might also do it? There are available locally to me.
My current tweeter shows 2dB of compression at 96dB, and 4dB of compression at 106dB. (it's the double magnet ring radiator from V/P)
Is there a spec that I should be looking for, or do I need to measure it to know for sure?
I use the SB Satori TW29TXN-B in my main system. The sensitivity is 96 dB/2.83V. I have not measured the dynamic compression, but this driver will play loud with just a few volts. I filter it at 1.6 kHz 4th order.
T34 came to my mind first.
I think Satori tweeters could work due to their higher sensitivity around 95dB, and some Scan Speaks as well, like 7100 with its 94dB sensitivity.
I think Satori tweeters could work due to their higher sensitivity around 95dB, and some Scan Speaks as well, like 7100 with its 94dB sensitivity.
http://www.baudline.com/erik/bass/xmaxer.html
For a 1" tweeter to hit 110dB at 2kHz, 0.87mm of Xmax is required. High sensitivity means you'll need fewer volts to get there, but if your tweeter only has 0.2mm of Xmax, it's never going to manage that output.
Have you considered compression drivers?
Chris
For a 1" tweeter to hit 110dB at 2kHz, 0.87mm of Xmax is required. High sensitivity means you'll need fewer volts to get there, but if your tweeter only has 0.2mm of Xmax, it's never going to manage that output.
Have you considered compression drivers?
Chris
Perhaps a good 1 inch format compression driver and little round horn such as Eminence's APT80 ? - that might do ok
I use K-tubes - there's an inexpensive PRV ring radiator one inch format compression which would drive one as well or better than DE250 B&C. A CAT 37-8 is pretty much a toy for your desired levels. Maybe an array per Tekton.
I use K-tubes - there's an inexpensive PRV ring radiator one inch format compression which would drive one as well or better than DE250 B&C. A CAT 37-8 is pretty much a toy for your desired levels. Maybe an array per Tekton.
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Like Zvu posted, the HiFiCompass measurements are likely the only place you'll find the data. However, I know the Morels are good for a 1mm Xmax. I'm thinking they are in the 93-94dB range for sensitivity.
I thought about the Bliessma as well as the Satori Be, and the H26 has the output to likely get there. These all were on my mind too.
Here's the system output at 2.83V.
I've used a 100ms time window because I wanted to see to see the total system output. So that includes a bit of room effect.
Here's the system output at various SPL levels @1m. normalized to the 86dB output. The top-most green line represents 2.83V input.
The dynamic compression is above the M-T XO frequency, which made me wonder, it is suspension limited?
At 10Khz-20Khz, it doesn't need a lot of x-max.
Here's the distortion data, derived from the REW's (default) log sine sweep method.
For those not familiar with REW, the fundamental and all distortion components are 1/24 octave smoothed.
The tweeter is clearly being pushed hard since it's now >1% H2 distortion.
So is this limitation due to suspension or thermal limits?
Compression drivers and horns may be needed, but that's a rabbit hole I'm not yet ready to go in.
I've used a 100ms time window because I wanted to see to see the total system output. So that includes a bit of room effect.
Here's the system output at various SPL levels @1m. normalized to the 86dB output. The top-most green line represents 2.83V input.
The dynamic compression is above the M-T XO frequency, which made me wonder, it is suspension limited?
At 10Khz-20Khz, it doesn't need a lot of x-max.
Here's the distortion data, derived from the REW's (default) log sine sweep method.
For those not familiar with REW, the fundamental and all distortion components are 1/24 octave smoothed.
The tweeter is clearly being pushed hard since it's now >1% H2 distortion.
So is this limitation due to suspension or thermal limits?
Compression drivers and horns may be needed, but that's a rabbit hole I'm not yet ready to go in.
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Yes that is a solution- 4 tweeters per midrange; I was hoping I could avoid that.
I will do some modelling and see what happens with dispersion with 4 vertically aligned tweeters beside the midrange. What happens to the polar response and do the tweeters need some shading?
I will do some modelling and see what happens with dispersion with 4 vertically aligned tweeters beside the midrange. What happens to the polar response and do the tweeters need some shading?
Thanks Ed,
but not necessary to have more than 1 midrange, because it is already padded about 8dB and system sensitivity is about 91dB/2.83V.
Hitting 110dB@1m is satisfactory for the intended use case (listening position ~3-5m)
but not necessary to have more than 1 midrange, because it is already padded about 8dB and system sensitivity is about 91dB/2.83V.
Hitting 110dB@1m is satisfactory for the intended use case (listening position ~3-5m)
Having 1% or >1% distortion is no indication of tweeter stress. I know of no compression driver (regardless of price) that shows less that 1% HD2 at even 95dB/1W/1m. But all higher order harmonics must be low.
Talk about Xmax of the tweeter is solid but so are the measurements. Satori i posted doesn't show serious stress signs 2kHz+ even at higest measuring voltage in distortion measurements - and that's where you'd see the effect of not enough linear travel. It has Xmax of 0.25mm
So, if you don't have the time/money for experimenting, Yevgeniy has pretty good data base and he measured at higher volumes. I'd look for something available there.
I made comparisons of some measured distortion in compression drivers here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...367-review-by-erin.32689/page-12#post-1153390
If it's just 2nd harmonic that is high, that is not thermal compression. In thermal compression all harmonics jump drastically.
Talk about Xmax of the tweeter is solid but so are the measurements. Satori i posted doesn't show serious stress signs 2kHz+ even at higest measuring voltage in distortion measurements - and that's where you'd see the effect of not enough linear travel. It has Xmax of 0.25mm
So, if you don't have the time/money for experimenting, Yevgeniy has pretty good data base and he measured at higher volumes. I'd look for something available there.
I made comparisons of some measured distortion in compression drivers here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...367-review-by-erin.32689/page-12#post-1153390
If it's just 2nd harmonic that is high, that is not thermal compression. In thermal compression all harmonics jump drastically.
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https://audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-eton-29hd2-magnesium-ceramic-28mm-dome-tweeter
The t34b was my first thought too. The above is my second pick.
The t34b was my first thought too. The above is my second pick.