Afternoon.
one of my friends who plays bass guitar wants to use this through a mixer and into a hifi power amp
are there limitations, do's/don'ts-equipment you can/cant use?
many thanks in advance
one of my friends who plays bass guitar wants to use this through a mixer and into a hifi power amp
are there limitations, do's/don'ts-equipment you can/cant use?
many thanks in advance
Hi,
He will need a DI ( direct injection box) to insert between his bass and mixer's mic preamplifier. Some desk even have dedicated instrument input ( which does the same thing internally).
This the most simple case, if he use other gear ( pedalboard, fx, preamp,..) there might be other way to do it.
He will need a DI ( direct injection box) to insert between his bass and mixer's mic preamplifier. Some desk even have dedicated instrument input ( which does the same thing internally).
This the most simple case, if he use other gear ( pedalboard, fx, preamp,..) there might be other way to do it.
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If it uses decent speakers and the amp is good quality, it should sound OK. Possibly too clean sounding as there will be no distortion or compression, unlike a bass amp.
must admit , im no0t sure why they dont use a proper amp, but there you go
The 'too clean' sound of a DI is the most important when you track a bass. Because from it you can have all the other you might need ( amp, distorted, crunch, synth, whatever). You would be surprised how much bass sound you think come from an amp is actually a DI with compression and eq.
Anyway it's handy to have a direct access to monitor if practicing or low spl acts are planed.
Actually i got rid of my bass amp/baffle for a digital loudspeaker modeller ( Two Note Torpedo). It solves all issues of interfacing and i've the same very nice sound everywhere i go. It weight 1kg.
With my other pedals i've got something like 4kg 50cm x 30cm x 10cm board and my bass to have access to anything i need everywhere. I won't go back to my 4x10 combo even if i still own it ( for recordings).
Anyway it's handy to have a direct access to monitor if practicing or low spl acts are planed.
Actually i got rid of my bass amp/baffle for a digital loudspeaker modeller ( Two Note Torpedo). It solves all issues of interfacing and i've the same very nice sound everywhere i go. It weight 1kg.
With my other pedals i've got something like 4kg 50cm x 30cm x 10cm board and my bass to have access to anything i need everywhere. I won't go back to my 4x10 combo even if i still own it ( for recordings).
Any identification on the mixer and HiFi power amp? It could be a Behringer QX1002 connected to a old Phase Linear 400 for all we know. If he's going into one of the two channels with compression, it'd probably work out just fine, as long as the speakers could take it...
It's not really a good idea to use home hi-fi speakers with musical instruments.
Very easy to damage the speakers.
Very easy to damage the speakers.
Really?
I mean aren't powered monitors used for... monitoring purpose the same thing that an hifi loudspeaker?
Sorry but the compression thing is a myth. It might be required for aesthetical purpose but in no way as a limiter.
A signal is a signal. And i think you overestimate what dynamic a bass can give ( even on slap i can practive on Alesis monitor1mk2 ( typical 6+1...).
I mean aren't powered monitors used for... monitoring purpose the same thing that an hifi loudspeaker?
Sorry but the compression thing is a myth. It might be required for aesthetical purpose but in no way as a limiter.
A signal is a signal. And i think you overestimate what dynamic a bass can give ( even on slap i can practive on Alesis monitor1mk2 ( typical 6+1...).
Actual monitors are built to take the abuse, home speakers arn't. Its not hard to get accidental peaks 20db louder than the normal level when mixing live. With a bass you can get that just from changing styles, soft finger picking to slapping. Controlling that is up to the bass player, but it doesn't always happen.
So as long as the levels he listens at arnt to high, or he uses a compressor (pretty standard for bass) pedal before the mixer he should be fine. And the sound will need a lot of processing to sound like a real amp/cab.
So as long as the levels he listens at arnt to high, or he uses a compressor (pretty standard for bass) pedal before the mixer he should be fine. And the sound will need a lot of processing to sound like a real amp/cab.
Sorry but the argument studio monitors are different and made to accept 'special' signal i don't buy.
Let's see if you see anything special into this one:
https://minirig.org.au/2010/01/26/m...esis-monitor-one-mk-i-studio-monitor-speakers
Despite the maybe chinese 5dollar piece woofer and 2 dollar tweeters are the most 'specialized items one can find.
And as i own it's succesor too ( powered mk2, as well as other one like Tannoy) i can tell there is nothing special in the Lm3886 and 1875 amp that drive the same kind of drivers... in the Tannoy it is a pair of 7293 which drive the same 8" ref you could find for home hifi.
And historically, aren't Ns10 hifi loudspeakers? Or Proac? How could they have withstand so many abuse if this wasn't a myth?
Let's see if you see anything special into this one:
https://minirig.org.au/2010/01/26/m...esis-monitor-one-mk-i-studio-monitor-speakers
Despite the maybe chinese 5dollar piece woofer and 2 dollar tweeters are the most 'specialized items one can find.
And as i own it's succesor too ( powered mk2, as well as other one like Tannoy) i can tell there is nothing special in the Lm3886 and 1875 amp that drive the same kind of drivers... in the Tannoy it is a pair of 7293 which drive the same 8" ref you could find for home hifi.
And historically, aren't Ns10 hifi loudspeakers? Or Proac? How could they have withstand so many abuse if this wasn't a myth?
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No problem with Mixer or Power Amp, the REAL bottleneck are the speakers.
What will he use? Please supply brand and model or your question has no answer.
IF PA type, fine, although maybe Bass won´t be too powerful, unless quite large, PA speakers are not optimized for that, specially if small-ish modern active plastic cabinets which are everywhere.
If, as suggested above, those are Hi Fi types, be very carefu and use them only in an home (living room?) situation.
Any larger, even garage band rehearsal can destroy them.
Hint: "too soft" edges and surrounds, very easy to smash voice coils against backplate. .
What will he use? Please supply brand and model or your question has no answer.
IF PA type, fine, although maybe Bass won´t be too powerful, unless quite large, PA speakers are not optimized for that, specially if small-ish modern active plastic cabinets which are everywhere.
If, as suggested above, those are Hi Fi types, be very carefu and use them only in an home (living room?) situation.
Any larger, even garage band rehearsal can destroy them.
Hint: "too soft" edges and surrounds, very easy to smash voice coils against backplate. .
"Sorry but the argument studio monitors are different and made to accept 'special' signal i don't buy."
I think Neumann knows better.
https://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/difference-between-home-stereo-speakers-and-studio-monitors
And PA monitors are not studio monitors. Even bigger difference. Almost always horns vs dome tweeters, self powered with lots of power. And built in limiting (protection). There built to be loud and take the abuse live sound can dish out.
https://geekmusician.com/pa-speakers-vs-hi-fi-speakers/
I think Neumann knows better.
https://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/difference-between-home-stereo-speakers-and-studio-monitors
And PA monitors are not studio monitors. Even bigger difference. Almost always horns vs dome tweeters, self powered with lots of power. And built in limiting (protection). There built to be loud and take the abuse live sound can dish out.
https://geekmusician.com/pa-speakers-vs-hi-fi-speakers/
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You are mixing VERY different speakers in the same salad bowl.
Cannot compare apples to oranges to pears to grapes.
That´s why I asked for SPECIFIC Brand and Model, otherwise there is no answer possible.
Except blanket statements which are wrong by definition.
When you slap do you turn it down? I also play bass (and worked as a recording engineer for 30 years) and the dynamics can be huge (depends on style). Something most players don't notice until the mix when half there playing dissapears under the other instruments or the E string is a lot louder than the rest. Compression is pretty standard for bass when recording/mixing and a good idea live.
As has been mentioned, studio monitors are like Hi-Fi speakers, but powered P.A. systems intended for live music are built very differently.
If you are a bass player who is very aware of the limitations of your Hi-Fi speakers, and play accordingly, they might stay alive.
I've successfully played bass through a little Fender Frontman 25R with an open-back cab, without a compressor, and the amp and speaker were fine. But I had to keep volume down very low (just enough to blend with my friend's strummed acoustic guitar). Any more, and the cheap little speaker would start to emit death-rattles as the voice coil ran out of excursion.
Most bass players won't be that sensitive to the limitations of the speaker. They will turn up until the bass is at the right volume to their ears. That will kill IC power amps (which can't cope with sustained power outputs without overheating). It might also kill the woofer either by exceeding Xmax, or by overheating and burning out the voice coil. If the speaker has a Hi-Fi tweeter - a proper magnetic one, not piezo - it will most likely be living on borrowed time.
Your photos show the mark 1, not mark 2. The Mark2 is darker, has a better tweeter, a better driver, a different logo, a better crossover network, and was designed by better engineers (I worked side by side with two of them for a couple of years).
I know these speakers well, as I have a pair in my living room, and we use them for everything. I've been using them since the early 2000s, IIRC. Pic of the Mk2: https://www.alesis.com/products/legacy/monitor-one-mkii-passive
Back in the early 2000s, also I bought a pair of B-stock Alesis Monitor 1 Mk1 (the same speaker in your photos), and gave them, along with an Alesis RA-100 audio power amp, to my in-laws. I set everything up for them to play music and TV sound through, but later found my father-in-law had been playing his Alesis keyboard (also a gift from me) through his Monitor 1 speakers. He had fried both tweeters by doing this.
Keyboards can put out lots of sustained high frequencies, which is presumably what fried the Monitor 1 Mk1 tweeters. Will the same tweeters survive the output of a bass guitar? Maybe, depending on how careful you are. One loud "pop!" from an unplugged guitar cable might be enough to shoot the tweeter voice coil permanently out of it's magnetic gap.
I hate the sound of most compression horn tweeters, but they seem to be a necessary evil for speakers tasked to produce higher SPL. The alternative is piezo horn tweeters, which tend to sound even worse than (magnetic) compression horn tweeters.
-Gnobuddy
Yes it shows mark1, i though that saying that i own mark2 too was clear enough to makes clear i own both.
As well as Tannoy system800 passive that i have turned into active. And i started my carreer in audio engineering about the same as you Cbdb, started playing bass circa 1990 when a teen too... played a lot of fusion/metal, like Living colours, Korn, things like that. So yes i slap, have aggressive right hand both pick and fingers too.
And yes i have a compressor since 1993/4 ( Trace Elliott smx dual band comp) as it ease the rms level management both with slap and before distortion box ( Rat, HM2, Shredmaster are my three mains one).
So please point me where i was talking about PA powered gear please?
I mean and was clear about it's about practicing and low spl rehearsal as well as monitoring when tracking then even a pair of NS10 is up to the task. And even on this NS10 i can ear my drop A tuning ( but i must concede i don't have a filtered dub tone).
Talk about a big scene then yes i want my 4x10, even double the cabs. If recording with a great spacious room here again please give me an Ampeg and a fridge!
But small gigs? I've got a wedge...Rehearsal in my friend living room? I happily plug straigth into the hifi with my torpedo.
It happened i blew monitor twice: one was something stupid involving an 1kw pa amp used on 5+1without any attenuation upfront, the other involved someone plugin in a static mic with phantom on on a wide open chanel ( it happened twice to me, second one being on a big soundsystem).
I was into D&B and punk approach of studio environnement and never blew anything despite overdriving a lot analog/digital synth/mixing boards ( analog and digital) and samplers.
Problems arise either from stupid behaviour, either from stupid gear choice: trying to have 105dbspl at 40hz from 6,5", using an unmatched amplifier ( either not enough or too much power).
Last thing Cbdb, please point us to a session you've done in the last 20 years where your musicians didn't track the 'definitive' takes sitted next to you at the mixing desk ( this exclude drums and other very loud instruments like trumpets,...)?
My experience is that 99% of takes being guitar or bass are monitored through nearfield, sometimes NS10 ( which are/were mini hifi loudspeakers).
I think if it was an issue most players would have whinned...
Neumann saying there monitors are different because they are powered? Arent my Alesis too? Nor my now Tannoy System800a? That makes them special?.... hmmm not for me. At most they have power amplifier sized to the driver they have to take care of but...nothing more than that versus an hifi loudspeaker.
Strange Neumann did not made the choice to advertise about the interesting point of details which makes their design interesting, at least to me.
As well as Tannoy system800 passive that i have turned into active. And i started my carreer in audio engineering about the same as you Cbdb, started playing bass circa 1990 when a teen too... played a lot of fusion/metal, like Living colours, Korn, things like that. So yes i slap, have aggressive right hand both pick and fingers too.
And yes i have a compressor since 1993/4 ( Trace Elliott smx dual band comp) as it ease the rms level management both with slap and before distortion box ( Rat, HM2, Shredmaster are my three mains one).
So please point me where i was talking about PA powered gear please?
I mean and was clear about it's about practicing and low spl rehearsal as well as monitoring when tracking then even a pair of NS10 is up to the task. And even on this NS10 i can ear my drop A tuning ( but i must concede i don't have a filtered dub tone).
Talk about a big scene then yes i want my 4x10, even double the cabs. If recording with a great spacious room here again please give me an Ampeg and a fridge!
But small gigs? I've got a wedge...Rehearsal in my friend living room? I happily plug straigth into the hifi with my torpedo.
It happened i blew monitor twice: one was something stupid involving an 1kw pa amp used on 5+1without any attenuation upfront, the other involved someone plugin in a static mic with phantom on on a wide open chanel ( it happened twice to me, second one being on a big soundsystem).
I was into D&B and punk approach of studio environnement and never blew anything despite overdriving a lot analog/digital synth/mixing boards ( analog and digital) and samplers.
Problems arise either from stupid behaviour, either from stupid gear choice: trying to have 105dbspl at 40hz from 6,5", using an unmatched amplifier ( either not enough or too much power).
Last thing Cbdb, please point us to a session you've done in the last 20 years where your musicians didn't track the 'definitive' takes sitted next to you at the mixing desk ( this exclude drums and other very loud instruments like trumpets,...)?
My experience is that 99% of takes being guitar or bass are monitored through nearfield, sometimes NS10 ( which are/were mini hifi loudspeakers).
I think if it was an issue most players would have whinned...
Neumann saying there monitors are different because they are powered? Arent my Alesis too? Nor my now Tannoy System800a? That makes them special?.... hmmm not for me. At most they have power amplifier sized to the driver they have to take care of but...nothing more than that versus an hifi loudspeaker.
Strange Neumann did not made the choice to advertise about the interesting point of details which makes their design interesting, at least to me.
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It really depends from the specific speakers (and the amp). Many years ago I had big Electrovoice speakers with 12'' drivers; the sound was awesome when a friend tried his guitar, connected trough a pedal. With the small, weak apartment speakers I have now, it would be a disappointment and possibly a damage may occour.
That says it all, doesn't it? This is exactly what everyone on this thread has been telling you - that you risk blowing speakers by plugging musical instruments into Hi-Fi speakers.
I have never blown a single speaker, ever, in my entire life. I also don't plug my guitars, microphones, or keyboards into Hi-Fi speakers.
-Gnobuddy
Years and years ago, I bought a "white cone" 12" woofer from McGee radio. I put it in a EV corner cab, drove it with some Fisher Laboratory Power Amp with 4 6L6s, connected directly to my Gibson EB-0 bass. Took that rig to a music practice space we rented for a day of fun. By the end, the VC had tore its way out of the white cone; a circular tear about 1" above the VC glue ring.
I cried to McGee about it in a hand written letter, saying that shouldnt have happened! They sent me a new one. I probably single-handedly put them out of business with that "last straw".
I cried to McGee about it in a hand written letter, saying that shouldnt have happened! They sent me a new one. I probably single-handedly put them out of business with that "last straw".