Why assume people only listen in a room, and with box speakers? Headphones take the room out of consideration, and can they often perform very well with a single transducer. A lot of possible room and speaker issues therefore need not affect discrimination type listening tests.
In addition, people often seem to assume that preference testing is all people do. Discrimination tests are far more common here.
In addition, people often seem to assume that preference testing is all people do. Discrimination tests are far more common here.
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Except most recordings are made for speaker playback and are heavily compromised on headphones if the stereo illusion is something you like.
Imaging tests should be done with speakers. Line level cable discrimination tests need not rely on imaging.
Bill, last line level cable discrimination tests I did here was with new cable, new gold Neutrik XLR connectors, a modified Pass HPA-1, and Audeze planar headphones. Cables were all the same length, 3-feet. Easy to tell them apart by ear. Obvious. No amplifier oscillations either. Cables included Mogami Gold starquad, Belden, etc. One type of custom cable was included in the tests. No silly high capacitance cables or anything else pathological. Dirty, corroded connectors were not an issue.
Bill, last line level cable discrimination tests I did here was with new cable, new gold Neutrik XLR connectors, a modified Pass HPA-1, and Audeze planar headphones. Cables were all the same length, 3-feet. Easy to tell them apart by ear. Obvious. No amplifier oscillations either. Cables included Mogami Gold starquad, Belden, etc. One type of custom cable was included in the tests. No silly high capacitance cables or anything else pathological. Dirty, corroded connectors were not an issue.
🙄 So much for "Soundstage is wide and very deep." "conveys soundstage width and especially depth information (i.e. low level decays)."
How things seem to you may not be the actual case. It's important for you to survey it if you are trying to assess the situation.
You mean that's how it seems to you. But it's necessary for DAC evaluation, no? "Noise floor modulation (signal correlated noise) matters. DAC chip designers know that. It interferes with perceived dynamics, it is one of the things that affects soundstage depth, etc."
"Benchmark DAC-3 uses SMPS, but Topping D90 with its linear supplies is the better sounding dac (or was back when there was still AK4499). D90 is much better sounding for 'space junkie' types. Seriously. DAC-3 soundstage is compressed towards the center and forward. D90 is very wide."
But if you believe in audibility beyond engineering then surely the better cable for DAC to HPA would not be the better cable for DAC to power amp?
Nice anecdote but you know how much store I put on sighted listening esp if the new cable was delivered by someone who tells you how wow it is.
Doesn't matter. He will say whatever fits his agenda of the day is.
Is that how he does his audio electronics comparisons? If so, that explains a lot of what he posts on sound quality.
Yes, different sounds (and their direction) are generally very easy for humans to detect - it's how our ear/brain combination evolved to help us survive predation. However, I don't quite get the gist of the second part of your comment.
Same cable. Its intended not to alter the sound at all, as evaluated at 3-feet in length (3' should sound like 1"). Most cables don't pass the test.
Can you expand on the "etc." please? I'm always on the lookout for good, affordable cables.
Its asking if you trust anyone other than yourself to judge between what can be called an obvious difference as verses a subtle difference? In other words if you compare two USB cables and find that one makes a particular dac sound obviously different as compared to the other cable, and if the difference was big enough for you to judge as 'obvious,' then you would probably quite rationally figure there must be some physical cause, that it wasn't just your imagination. The latter, imagination, is something you might suspect if the difference was 'subtle' instead of 'obvious' to you.
My concern is that you aren't the only rational and educated person there is. Yet, you seem to be quick to assume other people are not rational if you don't immediately think of a physical explanation for what they report as sounding 'obvious' to them. You might without too much thought judge someone to be an audiophool, which may or may not be true. You don't really know since you weren't there.
The one we use is not for sale, nor am I allowed to give any away. It not my IP, so not my decision. IIRC John Curl was given a sample of line level cable to try out, if you want to ask him for an opinion on it. Of the cable that is for sale, the Mogami Gold StarQuad was pretty good for balanced XLR, probably the 2nd best of those tried in my comparison.
And so the discussion can go on for ever and ever without finding any consensus.
Why ? Because what we hear differs from ear to ear and from person to person.
Hearing something we like is mostly an emotional process, it can't be measured and it's appreciation is only valid to the person who's listening.
He is the one who should be happy with his spending's.
This discussion is almost as senseless as trying to prove that music from Jimi Hendrix is superior to music from Bach.
Hans
Why ? Because what we hear differs from ear to ear and from person to person.
Hearing something we like is mostly an emotional process, it can't be measured and it's appreciation is only valid to the person who's listening.
He is the one who should be happy with his spending's.
This discussion is almost as senseless as trying to prove that music from Jimi Hendrix is superior to music from Bach.
Hans
So the "test(s)" means...what, exactly?
A. A/B audition with music
B. ABX/DBT audition with music
C. Measurements with tones
Hearing is the physical sensory mechanism. What we "hear" only differs between people because of differences in hearing accuity. There is an average hearing profile, defined even more accurately when age and culture are factored. It is completely possible to separate hearing from the emotional process, but that is not typically done. But what's being discussed here is mostly not about what we hear, it's what listeners perceive. Perception involves the hearing mechanism as interpreted by perception, biased by expectation. Perception and bias is being nearly uniformly ignored in these discussions, but perception (and conclusions drawn from perception) have been proven to be massively affected by external biases. Being happy with one's spending is a form of confirmation bias.
So, what we're talking about here is "opinion", fully biased by undisclosed factors, non-repeatable, non-verifiable, but presented with conviction based on one persons experience, with a pinch of elitist mystery thrown in for good measure.
It's not even a data point.
A neutral, non-colored, XLR cable was identified for general use where no coloration and complete honesty was desired. Does that job fine going into power amps as well as into HPAs. Makes perfect sense to use it for both.