You should do some research into what "average" means and answer your own question.
I'm out. I'm not diving into an argument of what "average" means.
No argument with you. My point though is that while the above may be true, the average doesn't negate the extremes either.
There may be some who actually hear the differences they say they do, and claims that it's not possible may be based on our acceptance of the average as a limit on possibilities. I think it's wise to leave room for question instead of insisting that all that is possible is what we are currently able to think of. (This last sentence isn't aimed at you, just putting it out there as a general response to a two party argument.)
Yes, those, but there are other statistical metrics too that can be collected from a good sample of subjective data.
Ah. Another absolutits. I got into it with someone that felt that if there is ONE in 8 billion that can hear something other's can't, it negates all the other data.
Fine. Whatever.
Actually I'm arguing that the examples don't negate each other , not that they do.
You missed the point. What people call hearing may not actually be hearing. Often people mix up the perception with hearing. One can verify through measurements and or objective comparisons and see if it was indeed the soundwave arriving at our ears or just a thought that it did. There have been cases which the suggestion of cables being swapped without physically swapping would change the listener's perception. In simple terms, people are easily fooled. Next time you read about people's claim of hearing something from cable swap, treat it with a grain of salt.
Often boutique audio shills would spread FUD by using the possibility of extraordinary hearing ability as boogieman. When you investigate little further, you will find out that often those shills are grey haired person trying to preach audiophoolery to other grey haired people.
See above.
So we can agree that we are in full disagreement on the topic of individual emotions.
When my emotions make me feel happy, I don’t need control, metrics, measurements or whatever sort of justification.
Hans
Valid question.
That’s why I always explicitely mention, not just for cables, that when I prefer one above the other it concerns my very personal subjectice perception.
Hans
Of course, you are entitled to your own preference. As for the audio reproduction equipment, what do you regard as the quality judging criteria?
Probably not. We seem to be having a problem with understanding.
“When my emotions make me feel happy, I don’t need control, metrics, measurements or whatever sort of justification.When my emotions make me feel happy, I don’t need control, metrics, measurements or whatever sort of justification. “
I have no issue with any of that. But when it comes to using human senses and collected data regarding human response the impact of emotions do need to be under control.
Well put. I find that my own perceived hearing and emotional response to music changes practically daily, and often quite dramatically over a longer period. On one day I might think 'that is a really good track', and another time it might move me to tears. The brain is a complex and unpredictable thing sometimes, and I would never believe that I could make a definitive and quantitative statement regarding absolute sound. One day, a curry might be the perfect food, a week later, pizza. We are such fickle creatures!
I was asking your opinion in a way to display how subjective any "metric" seems to be these days... 🙂 I would think "average" has a definition accepted by science and not up for debate anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average
It's possible that the meaning of "Average" has taken this path here...
"Due to the aforementioned colloquial nature of the term "average", the term can be used to obfuscate the true meaning of data and suggest varying answers to questions based on the averaging method (most frequently arithmetic mean, median, or mode) used. In his article "Framed for Lying: Statistics as In/Artistic Proof", University of Pittsburgh faculty member Daniel Libertz comments that statistical information is frequently dismissed from rhetorical arguments for this reason.[13] However, due to their persuasive power, averages and other statistical values should not be discarded completely, but instead used and interpreted with caution. Libertz invites us to engage critically not only with statistical information such as averages, but also with the language used to describe the data and its uses, saying: "If statistics rely on interpretation, rhetors should invite their audience to interpret rather than insist on an interpretation."[13] In many cases, data and specific calculations are provided to help facilitate this audience-based interpretation."
Don't know why people so often confuse HF FR along with Threshold of Hearing on the one hand, with 'knowing what to listen for' on the other hand. Both ESS and Purifi say that they have people who have learned to notice small things that most people don't hear (i.e. that most people unknowingly ignore). People have no idea they are ignoring anything because the compelling illusion that everything which is perceived all there is. Its not about FR and or Thresholds, it is about noticing things in the frequency range and SPL you particular ears can detect. Often its things in the low midrange where hearing tends to be most sensitive.
Lrisbo on Purifi hysteresis distortion audibility:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-can-it-make-a-difference.384031/post-6972024 ...Post #160
ESS Presentation (discussion of what audiophiles hear starting around page 28 through page 41 of the slide deck):
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/23182504/noise-shaping-sigma-delta-dacs-ess-technology-inc
Various background information about perception, perceived reality, expertise, etc.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naïve_realism
https://www.fs.usda.gov/rmrs/sites/...sforIntuitiveExpertise_AFailureToDisagree.pdf
https://jeffreysaltzman.wordpress.c...he acronym,entirely based on rational thought.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/04/the-illusion-of-reality/479559/
Lrisbo on Purifi hysteresis distortion audibility:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-can-it-make-a-difference.384031/post-6972024 ...Post #160
ESS Presentation (discussion of what audiophiles hear starting around page 28 through page 41 of the slide deck):
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/23182504/noise-shaping-sigma-delta-dacs-ess-technology-inc
Various background information about perception, perceived reality, expertise, etc.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naïve_realism
https://www.fs.usda.gov/rmrs/sites/...sforIntuitiveExpertise_AFailureToDisagree.pdf
https://jeffreysaltzman.wordpress.c...he acronym,entirely based on rational thought.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/04/the-illusion-of-reality/479559/
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I am not aware of any peer reviewed published research on that.
Anything on hearing loss with age? You know, something like a chart.
Unfortunately, those in their 70's isn't looking good in that chart. 🙁
For what purpose, marketing to variety of ages? If so, that makes sense. If I'm trying to investigate purely the sound quality of audio electronics, I wouldn't bring retirees into the listening panel, not only because of hearing loss with age but also because of memory capacity with age.
Confession – I was wrong – DAC cable can dramatically alter sound!
I was using 3m long USB extension cable, that retails for 1$, with 1 m long USB cable that came along with the DAC. So, I taught that a better, one piece, cable would be a proper thing. Ordered 5m long decent looking one, OCC single crystal copper and whatnot: DAC cable
PC didn’t register that DAC is plugged in, probably high capacitance and fact that data wires are not twisted but straight. It’s made with usual Star-Quad cable that our Chinese friends are using for everything audio related, never mind the standards. Cable was put aside.
After this cable debate ventured to digital territory, I decided to check again. At four meters of cable, it should show if difference exists. USB cable was cut to 4 m length with reasoning that if a pure crap 4 m cable works well, this one also should. Wire colors were USB standard, black, red, green and white. I’ve soldered wires to the new USB connector by USB standard color scheme. Big mistake.
Chinese manufacturers of audio accessories don’t care for any standard. Result was the sound of silence from my DAC, as USB port was fried. Really big difference in sound!
Learned a thing, but it was an expensive process. 🤣
New DAC is already happily providing incredible sound stage and overload of details using old crap cable.
I was using 3m long USB extension cable, that retails for 1$, with 1 m long USB cable that came along with the DAC. So, I taught that a better, one piece, cable would be a proper thing. Ordered 5m long decent looking one, OCC single crystal copper and whatnot: DAC cable
PC didn’t register that DAC is plugged in, probably high capacitance and fact that data wires are not twisted but straight. It’s made with usual Star-Quad cable that our Chinese friends are using for everything audio related, never mind the standards. Cable was put aside.
After this cable debate ventured to digital territory, I decided to check again. At four meters of cable, it should show if difference exists. USB cable was cut to 4 m length with reasoning that if a pure crap 4 m cable works well, this one also should. Wire colors were USB standard, black, red, green and white. I’ve soldered wires to the new USB connector by USB standard color scheme. Big mistake.
Chinese manufacturers of audio accessories don’t care for any standard. Result was the sound of silence from my DAC, as USB port was fried. Really big difference in sound!
Learned a thing, but it was an expensive process. 🤣
New DAC is already happily providing incredible sound stage and overload of details using old crap cable.
I usually like to make my own cables and adaptors, but i found great choice of cables for really low prices, so maybe you can give it a look.
