I think most of what you said is conditional based on the constraints you inserted into it, rather than true in reality, jaddie, but I agree to disagree with you. It's just too much trouble to argue about, when I can just state my view and have it be there. That's all I intend.
OK, fair enough.I think most of what you said is conditional based on the constraints you inserted into it, rather than true in reality, jaddie, but I agree to disagree with you. It's just too much trouble to argue about, when I can just state my view and have it be there. That's all I intend.
My opinion is based on testing, measurement and DBT/ABX. It's also quite general, not conditional or specific to an AVR.
There are three modifications common in amps. One is adding distortion, two is adding noise, three is the amp/speaker interface, basically the impedance of the speaker interacts with the source impedance of the amp to create modifications in FR and phase. However, in a stereo amp or a matched pair of monoblocks the modification is identical in both channels. All of these modifications are provable, and in magnitude, very tiny relative to what happens with a speaker alone, and to an much greater extent with a speaker in a room. That's all I'm saying.
Other opinions are always welcome. I just wish there was some backup for them, because after all my years in audio, opinions that conflict with physics and science are something I would very much like to understand better. If an opinion like "This amp improves soundstage" is verifiable, then we could figure out why, and replicate the positive effect. That would advance both the art and science.
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Better yet it might be time to ignore your absurd and insulting posts. And that is exactly what I have done. Put you on ignore.Might be time to bring up the interconnects.Is it just the wires that came in the box with the reciever? Some of those $1.59 shipped jobs off evay?u
Perhaps the moderators and will take note and do something about you, but I'm not waiting for that to happen.
You are gone. Goodbye and good riddance.
Might be time to bring up the interconnects.
The best way to fix interconnects is none at all.
I made little "canals" filled with organic triple virgin mercury made by female monks in the high mountains of Peru... the only problem was to get the signal up and down at the ends... so at one point I make little waterfalls but I found they added some "shimmery" vibrations to the sound... So, I ended up raising the pools of mercury to 24 inches above the floor and placing the speakers on their sides so the drivers are all on the same level.
Everything is fine except the sound is a little muffled since I have to wear a bunny suit and a fully enclosed hood with full face mask and respirator.. and the City and the EPA are trying to Red Tag my house...
All in the name of Audio!
You can report inappropriate posts. Most forums have policy. Admins will delete inappropriate posts. No need to put up with insults, but no need to take matters into your own hands either.
If I had to ignore every one with whom I have disagreed I would have nobody to talk to.
Usually I apply formal logic. If the reply to one of my always fully correct and absolutely, fundamentally well constructed arguments crosses the line into a logical fallacy, then I examine it for an ad hominem attack.
If such, then I may ignore the person, but usually I won't, I'll just point it out.
However, I have found many people who get insulted when I just point out the facts. In this case, they are applying logical fallacies but are too ignorant to understand it (using their feelings, not facts). Like the moderator at reddit/audiophile... ( long story... I'm not longer in Reddit anyhow..). In such cases, I tend to count myself lucky not to have to deal with such ignorami.
Only in political forums will I block people as a matter of course.
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You are missing the point in this case. The posts being made were not disagreements about audio. They were direct attacks on my character.
There is no reason anyone should have to tolerate such attacks and putting that poster on Ignore is the best thing to do.
He is gone from my computer screen and believe me it is no loss.
Getting back if we can, please, to the subject of audio, I have done some experimentation with speaker placement. Here is what seems to work the best in my rather small room with highly absorbent carpet.
I have the speakers in an equilateral triangle 6.5 feet on each leg. They are 2' from the side walls and 3' from the front wall.
The speakers are aimed directly at the listening position at the apex of the triangle. Rotating them to the outside sounded weird. Sort of hollow in the middle. Rotating them to cross over in front of me also degraded the sound somewhat. Directly pointed at me sounds the best.
I don't think any of this is terribly surprising. I believe others have had similar experiences.
As I've have posted before, there is a definite 3-D sound stage. Violin soloists appear in front of the orchestra just like they would be at a concert. And the orchestra appears further away to the rear. But it's size shrinks compared to what you would hear in a concert hall.
So, the question still remains. What, if anything, can increase the size of the sound stage. Some say speakers, others say amplifier. Or maybe what I have now is the best that can be expect in a small room.
In any case, I hope that this discussion can possibly help others who are interested in the same topic.
I have the speakers in an equilateral triangle 6.5 feet on each leg. They are 2' from the side walls and 3' from the front wall.
The speakers are aimed directly at the listening position at the apex of the triangle. Rotating them to the outside sounded weird. Sort of hollow in the middle. Rotating them to cross over in front of me also degraded the sound somewhat. Directly pointed at me sounds the best.
I don't think any of this is terribly surprising. I believe others have had similar experiences.
As I've have posted before, there is a definite 3-D sound stage. Violin soloists appear in front of the orchestra just like they would be at a concert. And the orchestra appears further away to the rear. But it's size shrinks compared to what you would hear in a concert hall.
So, the question still remains. What, if anything, can increase the size of the sound stage. Some say speakers, others say amplifier. Or maybe what I have now is the best that can be expect in a small room.
In any case, I hope that this discussion can possibly help others who are interested in the same topic.
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What is your reference point for the size of an orchestra in a concert hall?
Most recordings are made too close to the orchestra... so it sounds like you're on top.... in a concert hall, mid row M ( our seats ) the orchestra should be somewhat distant and be about ~100 degrees max ( for a full sized orchestra ). You should not really hear the rows of the strings and horns and woodwinds should come from the back... echoing the back wall.
Perhaps you have reached as realistic as possible a reproduction by listening in the near field. Other than a good bottle of bourbon, I don't know what else you want.
My answer would still be: a lack of early reflections.
Followed by diffuse reflections coming from lateral angles, properly timed not to interfere with the imaging.(*)
(side note: lack of diffraction from speakers as well)
(*)= for orchestral work this would follow somewhere between ~7 and 12 ms, for pop probably somewhere between ~15-20 ms.
-Without room treatment one could get something similar (but not the same) from a horn/wave-guided speaker.-
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This is a good a point and you may be right. Is the distance I'm listening at considered to be near field? I've never been sure about the exact definition of it.
A six foot equilateral triangle is as close as you want. At that distance the drivers need to be pretty close together or be coaxial. Mini monitors are designed just for that. That is near field for a listening set up.
In my office, I listen to Acoustic Energy AE1s, which are meant to be listened in the very near field, speakers four feet apart, my head three feet from each speaker... yet, if I roll the chair back about two feet, the sound is mellower, not so direct. In such a set up, the speakers work well on a shelf right on the wall ( ports face forward ).
When I had my AE1s in the small room, listening only, of the house (10x12 and cathedral ceiling -9 to 13 high), I had the whole set up very much like yours... one comfy chair, two speakers on stands and components on the side wall. Bass traps on two corners and thick queen sized blankets on side walls. Wall to wall carpeting too.
Alright, you've got my attention to room issues. I've said in the past that I don't want to use room treatments for aesthetic reasons, and still don't.
But if I can be certain that the room is the dominant limitation, then I can either accept some amount of room treatment or just simply be satisfied with what I have and stop worrying about making any changes.