Cap choice

[mountainman bob]

Hey Wolf, thanks for the heads up but I’m aware of the difference. Vintage tone and VT are a bit different, seems as though the new version of VT is red though.

 

[wolf_teeth]

VT is still vintage tone, but the one on the right is a heat treated non-drip version. Tone should be the same.

 

[jimbones]

I look at systems too and I know the limit of caps work in my system as well I know it is just compensation Eq in this system I hear the whole at the end. As I also take a carefull attention in the caps of all my system from the source I noticed the work while borring pays off... as a hobby because the ridiculous time involved. The problem with measurement is what to measure according what you are looking for and also the resolution relation between the instruments and the listener. Sometimes it is more acurate that you need sometimes the instrument may not notice the change because the phenomen involved is elswhere... and here because also it is psychological and the brain want to rull and full fill an answer then one slide towards such words as placebo...easy but nothing scientifical.Enginnering is something else yet, often it is mixed with the word science by lack of epestimological knowledge. And often the response made are just showing limits, lack of open minds but will to rule it by semantic at the end to stay in the control area of the mind confort.

I do agree with salesmen... we are all a little bipolar with that but as far we are aware about it....
I also do agree with better drivers but we are not in the same price range than few mkps (but if they are Duelunds...which I would not affoard myself) ...but if you slide this way we soon come to the listening room, digital eq but what amount, atc...neverending story. While it is cahos it is still a system...which one is ruling the other when you think at it ? The more you use one side to try to rule it the less you enjoy the other part of the brain who is enjoying music because the rulling side takes the control and ask always more. But what is good with engineering is there is always a road map assigned to an amount of monney...science is something else.

Anyway, I would proceed differently from Jimbones waits. I do work with some wirewound clear caps first to see if more light and resolution is better or worse in my systems according the limited subject of passive parts tweaking then only will work with caps according to the finds. But it is details imho (at least the 90/10 you talked about)as far you do not find the best power response imho that works best for you according your room and listening position...also moving the chair is less expensive but the op is knowing that so we slide off topic again.

The only reason I mention the Jupiters is because I already have them and there is no added cost. I will look at the V Cap OIMP. If my main cap is 8.2uf what value should the bypass cap be to have an effect??

 

[AllenB]

VT is still vintage tone

It all sounds very interesting, but what does it mean? Say, I wanted to reproduce the effect...

 

[wolf_teeth]

Just that it's intentionally different from 'modern' versions, i guess.

 

[AllenB]

I though it worth pointing out that be it resistance, inductance or maybe a resonance there should be another way to replicate the effect. Applying it with EQ instead would be a more consistently reliable method.

 

[diyiggy]

Jimbones, even a 0.01 uF can be noticeable but no necessarily for the best always. You have to try. The littlier the capacitance vs the main, the more risky... resonance, etc. You can be sometimes in the pig lipstick effect.
Try what you have on hands, Jupiter is high end enough. Vcap are like Duelund...very expensive, too much if you ask me so you are in the diminishing return...very mmuch. I already gave my basic opinion I will work on the resistor first, see posts above.

 

[mountainman bob]

VT is still vintage tone, but the one on the right is a heat treated non-drip version. Tone should be the same.

Sorry but you are wrong……..
https://jupitercondenser.com/produc...84034&pr_ref_pid=6688386318498&pr_seq=uniform
VS.

https://jupitercondenser.com/products/aluminum-foil-wax-paper-capacitor

 

[diyiggy]

Edit...my bad, read I would work with wirewound resistors or bulk resistors first in front of the treble. But find before with fine tune the attenuation, i.e. with a good rotary lpad a la Fostex. Sorry for the confusion in the long post above where I swapped the word resistor with cap one..

For Instance a Mundorf Supreme resistor may add some clearness, ligth and details improvement against a sandcast. A powertron vishay bulk resistor can sound better...a Mox may add some smoothness will being more clear than a sandcast. A Mills wirewound may be smooth while still more transparent than a sandcast. Sometimes the sandcast is just the right choice. It is often forgotten bur worth the try and sometimes with very noticeable result with detailed drivers.

 

[wolf_teeth]

Bob-
I was not even discussing the red ones.

The VT nomenclature actually means 'vintage tone' wherever it's used in their products. The yellow and cardboard (heat treated) versions you posted pic of earlier both are VT caps, as they both have a vintage tone characteristic. The material composition may change the sound from the individual types a bit, but VT means the classic/vintage tone characteristic among their product lines.

Last I knew, the Red Astron and HT models are the supposed non-VT products and are not the classic/vintage tone profile.

The cardboard tubed models are supposed to be improved versions (non-drip) of the former that had heat and melting problems when the ambient temperature was too high.

I'm not making this up.

 

[peterbrorsson]

I'm not making this up.

Very Creamy break up! You should go into dairy business with Bob the mountain 😱

 

[mountainman bob]

remember the VT are Vintage Tone models, and more for classic guitar tone than speaker neutrality.

wolf I’m not trying to be a pita but it literally says it in the description…..the vintage tone are specifically “for guitar amps” even has a different dielectric (polyester/mylar).
The VT is described as “for speakers” and has a paper/wax dielectric. Granted the VT paper/wax is old school technology but is NOT designed for ”classic guitar tone” thats what I’m trying to get across, and they are quite neutral just not as sharp a edge as when combined with a copper bypass……that much I can say from experience.

 

[Superchunk]

That would explain a lot! 😳

What has always struck me as curious was the psychology of the 'don't try it' crowd. On one side you have people who don't claim to know everything, but the one thing they do know for certain is themselves and what they hear and those people claim to hear a difference when using different capacitors. These people have no problem experimenting and going on their merry way, and I never get a sense of them forcing a certain action or inaction on others. There is no 'dogma' its just a notion of 'Hey bro, try it and see.' I think the spirit is that of curiosity and discovery.

Then for some strange reason there is another type of person. This person does act as if there is a dogma behind their position. First, they are extremely passionate about how things 'don't' make a difference and it looks like their goals are either to mock others believing as they do, or to convince people on the fence not to experiment. This feverish notion to convince people not to even try something and find out for themselves is so foreign to me, I never understood it. One could claim that it is compassion for the other person driving this, meaning they don't wish for that person to begin wasting their money on something they themselves are convinced will not make a difference. But where is the same compassion for the stranger who claims they themselves do hear a difference? Is the compassion present as they are mocking them? I've always been curious about what drives the 'don't try it don't be curious' crowd because before getting into audio, I never experienced such a passionate bunch.

If I got out of a movie that was just absolutely terrible and came across a total stranger very excited to see it, I wouldn't try to change their minds. But let's say this person was somehow poor or only could see one movie per year, then I might try to convince them to perhaps see another movie with their ticket solely out of compassion. However, if they remained adamant about wanting to see that particular movie, honestly deep down I wouldn't care. Not to the point of insulting them, that would be absolutely mad. Unless of course I had some sort of pathology where I truly believed that I was the full and total arbiter of the 'truth' and no other human's opinion, regardless of how innocent, was valid unless I deemed it so.

Anyways, I digress. Time to do my taxes and I'm obviously procrastinating by writing this long post. 🙂

Absolutely wonderful. I've always felt totally confused by the mentality as well. And I can only see it as a desperate need to be right about something that it does seem to border on a mental illness.