ha ha yeah right?!! I guess I cant bring myself to spend $500 on a 3.3uf cap lol! On the tweeter i have a L Pad od 2/5 ohm combo that attenuates it quite a bit.
If you want to reign in the treble a bit, it might sound strange to put a pure silver foil bypass cap on there, but I would recommend Duelund 0.01uF 600Vdc JDM-Ag Pure Silver Foil BYPASS Capacitor which is currently on sale for 25% off. Its about $110 for the pair and gives a very spacious glassy smooth unetched quality to treble. It is difficult to explain but it adds a sort of humidity to the presentation if that makes any sense kind of like if you see a candle in light fog, there is a bit of a glow around it as the light is reflecting off the water in the air. It's not muddy or anything like that, just pleasant and a bit softer. Ah, describing things like this is so difficult! I think we all kind of 'see' the sound in our minds as we close our eyes and listen, not a visual or a feeling but a strange mixture of both so my vague descriptions wouldn't necessarily transfer to somebody else, but hopefully if you can cut through the gobbledygook you can get a general impression of what bypass caps do what after reading many posts. One thing is for certain, it absolutely is coloring the sound, I've found the Duelund bypass capacitors to each have a distinct flavor to them. The Tinned Copper/Copper are in one camp and are faster/more attack and seemingly more precise sounding (copper especially) and the Pure Silver Foil is smoother and softer with a glow to it. In terms of spaciousness, Tinned Copper wins and that is what I use on my speakers since the Buchardt S400 treble is a bit rolled off to my ears with the very early MKI crossover version I have.
You could experiment on that to find the very fine and precise attenuation you like the best (Fostex Lpad or similar?) then experiment with better resistors. Are you using cement... some bulk or wirewound resistors introduce noticeable changes...better or bad accordind the whole system, up to you to experiment also here. Also parrelel two resistors makes the gauge thicker for the basic cement that can have thin leads...that can help sometimes with drivers and systems that have great resolution enough.
Probably mine, and yes I agree. That's the trouble we find ourselves in, what I am describing is 100% subjective. It is not truth, it is my own interpretation based on my system, my experiences and my ears. I seriously doubt that two people, without talking to each other, would sit down in the same chair in my room and listen and walk away with the exact same language. All we have is subjective experience, and people doing their best to describe those experiences, some to a better degree and I certainly am not great at it. On the other side, we have the measurement crowd, which I appreciate because it is something concrete and repeatable and solid, not like my ethereal babbling on about how capacitors sound. The only problem is, the way they are doing it doesn't actually work and to me is pretty much worthless when it comes to capacitor conversations. For drivers and impedance and response, sure it can give you a very solid idea but for capacitor changes, or resistor changes, their methods show that everything is exactly the same pretty much. So you have something solid, which is not correct, or you have something closer to the truth, but is filled with fluff and BS sounding language like what I wrote. My recommendation is to sift through the fluff and subjectivity but keep it in the back of your mind, then if you go on other forums or posts over a period of months and find that people describe the same capacitors consistently with similar attributes or descriptions then you can get a very vague idea of whether or not it would fit in your system. That's it, that's literally the best we can do. For example, I've read enough to know that if somebody wrote my description of the Duelund Pure Silver Foil in regards to a VH Audio CuTF capacitor, I would do a double take. Now, I haven't heard the VH Audio CuTF but I've read enough of this type of fluff about it to know that none of the descriptions sound anything like how I described the Duelund. From what I've heard about it, it sounds like the opposite. Very clear, no glow, extremely unforgiving and precise. It does takes a bit of detective work and coming to terms with that fact that you'll need to read a lot of people who are willing to post their subjective experiences on things and sift through them, that's just the way it is. That's why I and anyone else who describes capacitors always say to take everything you read with a large grain of salt, especially what I write. Not that I'm not being truthful, but because there is no way I can 'get into someone's head' and say definitively "Here, this is exactly what you will hear too."
Having had real world experience with superior z and Jupiter compared in the same 1st order tweeter circuit (10uf) I can honestly say the jantzen by itself is rather dull and grainy up top….bypassing with a 0.1uf audyn copper max smooths it and brings out the air nicely, it has been in use this way for over two years…..no need to change.
The Jupiter VT (aluminum foil) is almost too smooth, ended up calming a otherwise bright 1st order tweeter…..tried bypassing with a 0.01uf Jupiter copper foil and found the extra edge it lacked……it hasn’t become permanent yet as I’d like to try the deuland silver bypass just haven’t ordered it yet
Bypassing does not work all the time especially on mids in a three way, had that same smeared effect wolf described.
mills 12w resistors in the tweeter circuit are (imo) so much better than cast for not much more $$
the haters can roll on the floor laughing until they wet themselves for all I care, these are my conclusions after extensive testing with little to no bias (the money or prestige really means nothing to me) just seeking what’s best for me…….and like wubai said, if my opinions happen to help another decide a direction to achieve a goal thats great….as long as they understand it may possibly be a waste of their time and money but even in failure the good thing is eventually you’ll get enough components in your parts box to be able to voice a crossover to your exact conditions. heres another taboo, final voicing must be done in situ @ lp to really appreciate the fine tuning. Also Dayton 1% are great cheap caps to form your initial xo before tweaking……can save you a bunch of money knowing exactly what value caps you need.
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That is interresting Bob. I use it in the first high pass node of a tweeter, 5.6uF.
What do you mean by " grainy" please ? A little edgy/sharp in the little details ?
I will try with a Audyn 0,1 uF true copper I have on hands... I do not have a 0.01 uF. 0.1 uF can bring an odd mix with the Jantzen I surmise but really worth a try.
What do you mean by " grainy" please ? A little edgy/sharp in the little details ?
I will try with a Audyn 0,1 uF true copper I have on hands... I do not have a 0.01 uF. 0.1 uF can bring an odd mix with the Jantzen I surmise but really worth a try.
Iggy, the audyn copper I have across the superior z is 0.1uf so it will be fine……the .01 (Jupiter copper) is on the Jupiter VT.
And yes grainy as in edgy/lacking smoothness at higher volumes……….that’s another thing I should mention you may not notice these changes unless you listen at higher levels……my average listening is 90-95 db @ lp. With testing levels even higher. Although with that said once you notice the difference it will relate to lower volumes but i find myself leaning in and wanting more!
In your case if you already have the audyn caps you have no $ loss to worry about, should also mention another taboo…..break in! give it a at least a couple days to settle in it may sound pretty bad at first, it’s always amazing to me listening to it come into its own. And another thing, you’ll hear some people say “well it sounded great at first then all of a sudden it didnt’ is really a thing…..just got to power through, it’ll come back around.
And yes grainy as in edgy/lacking smoothness at higher volumes……….that’s another thing I should mention you may not notice these changes unless you listen at higher levels……my average listening is 90-95 db @ lp. With testing levels even higher. Although with that said once you notice the difference it will relate to lower volumes but i find myself leaning in and wanting more!
In your case if you already have the audyn caps you have no $ loss to worry about, should also mention another taboo…..break in! give it a at least a couple days to settle in it may sound pretty bad at first, it’s always amazing to me listening to it come into its own. And another thing, you’ll hear some people say “well it sounded great at first then all of a sudden it didnt’ is really a thing…..just got to power through, it’ll come back around.
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Think about it. Now, we can in a laboratory measure that the copper foil $300 cap may be a more perfect cap. I do not question that.
Even I am pretty sure I can hear the difference between a NPE and a pc film, at least in the midrange.
I am not clairvoyant, so I can't tell you what you can and can't hear, but I have some general ideas.
As I am an engineer I look at systems. Are you going to ascribe some vague ethereal character to one cap in a series when the likely hood the signal has passed through dozens of cheap film, ceramic, and probably electrolytic caps from mic to speaker? Is that super low ESR copper cap in series with a resistor? Is the DF that different when we are driving a resonant mechanical system? Does it have less inductance than the wiring? Does it have such a thermal load as the TC pulls it off the design spec? Is it less microphonic? Less leakage? Does the Johnson noise matter when the VC is 1000 times higher and source 10,000?
The other side is if you think it sounds better and am willing to pay the price, that is great as it's your enjoyment that counts, not mine, not any "can't prove it deniers" or the best effort advertising copy from legless reptile salesman. No one gets hurt.
Personally, I might be looking at a new speaker build and move from the SB to Purifi woofer. I might be spending my money to see if the new elliptical SS tweeters are any better. Or put out the bucks for a set of mid-range Martin Logans.
Thanks for all the ideas. So I do happen to have Jupiter Copper and Wax o.22ufcaps in my parts bin. That seems like a good place to start.
I look at systems too and I know the limit of caps work in my system as well I know it is just compensation Eq in this system I hear the whole at the end. As I also take a carefull attention in the caps of all my system from the source I noticed the work while borring pays off... as a hobby because the ridiculous time involved. The problem with measurement is what to measure according what you are looking for and also the resolution relation between the instruments and the listener. Sometimes it is more acurate that you need sometimes the instrument may not notice the change because the phenomen involved is elswhere... and here because also it is psychological and the brain want to rull and full fill an answer then one slide towards such words as placebo...easy but nothing scientifical.Enginnering is something else yet, often it is mixed with the word science by lack of epestimological knowledge. And often the response made are just showing limits, lack of open minds but will to rule it by semantic at the end to stay in the control area of the mind confort.
I do agree with salesmen... we are all a little bipolar with that but as far we are aware about it....
I also do agree with better drivers but we are not in the same price range than few mkps (but if they are Duelunds...which I would not affoard myself) ...but if you slide this way we soon come to the listening room, digital eq but what amount, atc...neverending story. While it is cahos it is still a system...which one is ruling the other when you think at it ? The more you use one side to try to rule it the less you enjoy the other part of the brain who is enjoying music because the rulling side takes the control and ask always more. But what is good with engineering is there is always a road map assigned to an amount of monney...science is something else.
Anyway, I would proceed differently from Jimbones waits. I do work with some wirewound clear caps first to see if more light and resolution is better or worse in my systems according the limited subject of passive parts tweaking then only will work with caps according to the finds. But it is details imho (at least the 90/10 you talked about)as far you do not find the best power response imho that works best for you according your room and listening position...also moving the chair is less expensive but the op is knowing that so we slide off topic again.
I do agree with salesmen... we are all a little bipolar with that but as far we are aware about it....
I also do agree with better drivers but we are not in the same price range than few mkps (but if they are Duelunds...which I would not affoard myself) ...but if you slide this way we soon come to the listening room, digital eq but what amount, atc...neverending story. While it is cahos it is still a system...which one is ruling the other when you think at it ? The more you use one side to try to rule it the less you enjoy the other part of the brain who is enjoying music because the rulling side takes the control and ask always more. But what is good with engineering is there is always a road map assigned to an amount of monney...science is something else.
Anyway, I would proceed differently from Jimbones waits. I do work with some wirewound clear caps first to see if more light and resolution is better or worse in my systems according the limited subject of passive parts tweaking then only will work with caps according to the finds. But it is details imho (at least the 90/10 you talked about)as far you do not find the best power response imho that works best for you according your room and listening position...also moving the chair is less expensive but the op is knowing that so we slide off topic again.
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If you lik the OIMP, try the ASC X386 or X387 caps for less money.
Mtnman Bob, remember the VT are Vintage Tone models, and more for classic guitar tone than speaker neutrality.
Mtnman Bob, remember the VT are Vintage Tone models, and more for classic guitar tone than speaker neutrality.