Capacitors have always sounded the same to me, or so close it's not worth my time attempting to hear a difference between them.
However, recently I have been using some 0.033 orange drop 715 caps to first order an amplifier.
I thought some Russian milspec Teflon caps would be a nice upgrade for very few dollars.
The highpassed amp sounded great with these in the circuit, but gradually a him became apparent over the course of a day, low level, and not gain riding.
The next day I put the orange drop caps in again, it still sounds great, and no hum is noticeable.
I needed some 100uF caps for a 2nd order crossover, and noticed some 100uF poly motor caps at less than the price of electrolytic ones for sale that day.
They work fine, with no issues I can hear.
20uF cheap enough to put two in series for charge-coupled tweeter
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Titan-Pro-TRCF20-20-MFD-Round-Motor-Run-Capacitor-440-370V
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Titan-Pro-TRCF20-20-MFD-Round-Motor-Run-Capacitor-440-370V
if you're spending $100 on capacitors your design is fundamentally wrong
it should simply be a DSP system at that point
because that's how professional systems are designed
low-end ones use cheap electrolytic capacitors that ruin everything but are cheap
high-end systems use DSP
keep in mind most systems you see in use have been designed decades ago
i'm talking about systems that are being designed today
today you can fit the entire DSP processor inside an earbud - in about 1% of the volume taken up by your capacitor
i should add that if there are still professionals systems made using quality passive crossovers its just because many people out in the field are old school and scared of new technology or they already own amplifiers that they want to keep using ...
but it makes no logical sense ...
almost all new professional amplifiers feature built in DSP and many amplifiers have up to 8 channels in one chassis, in some cases in one rack space ...
given that is the case spending money on capacitors is the same as just throwing it out ...
low-end ones use cheap electrolytic capacitors that ruin everything but are cheap
high-end systems use DSP
keep in mind most systems you see in use have been designed decades ago
i'm talking about systems that are being designed today
today you can fit the entire DSP processor inside an earbud - in about 1% of the volume taken up by your capacitor
i should add that if there are still professionals systems made using quality passive crossovers its just because many people out in the field are old school and scared of new technology or they already own amplifiers that they want to keep using ...
but it makes no logical sense ...
almost all new professional amplifiers feature built in DSP and many amplifiers have up to 8 channels in one chassis, in some cases in one rack space ...
given that is the case spending money on capacitors is the same as just throwing it out ...
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What about the myriad of capacitors that are in a DSP system?
In any case I'm not inclined to think that electrolytic capacitors 'ruin everything'.
In any case I'm not inclined to think that electrolytic capacitors 'ruin everything'.
we have to make a distinction between nonlinear components that have a negative feedback loop around them and ones that do not
remember transistors are inherently nonlinear but circuits made out of them are made linear with negative feedback loop
in a crossover there is no feedback loop around any component thus components must be either linear
or must be eliminated altogether
with DSP
it was literally Elon Musk who said the number one mistake smart engineers make is optimize a part that shouldn't be there in the first place
remember transistors are inherently nonlinear but circuits made out of them are made linear with negative feedback loop
in a crossover there is no feedback loop around any component thus components must be either linear
or must be eliminated altogether
with DSP
it was literally Elon Musk who said the number one mistake smart engineers make is optimize a part that shouldn't be there in the first place
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In my opinion active crossover for low level signal is a strong alternative to dsp. It's harder to diy and make pretty, but definitely an alternative to consider.
You may still need tweeter protection caps and resistors for passive attenuation for hiss reduction.
You may still need tweeter protection caps and resistors for passive attenuation for hiss reduction.
I think you see it to black and white and fundamentalistic for dsp. There are enough high end systems with passive crossovers that actually sound good, and there is a ******** of dsp based cheap crap arround. The only place where dsp is mandatory is in high power pro systems for concerts and parties and so. For the rest it's a design choice with advantages and disadvantages. But rarely in high end systems that are science based you will see +100€ caps in the crossover. Most use industrial MKT or MKP caps with thight tollerances as they are as good and relative cheap. DSP done right is still quiet expensive and complicated for the end user who is mostly not like us, technically minded.
if your source is analog use analog crossover.
if your source is digital use digital crossover.
FWIW, Ive compared a DSP DIRECTLY to a matched transfer function passive system on the same speakers in an AB test, and could clearly identify and prefer the passive setup. DSP is not my preference.
Active and passive are two very different solutions swapping out second order passive with second order active will not work as the drivers complex impedance interact in so many ways witht the components in an passive crossover ww.troelsgravesen.dk/passive-to-active.htm
i rode a fighter jet and a horse buggy at a matched 3 miles per hour and preferred the horse buggy
no real surprise there
jokes aside i would not assume that all DSP is the same just like i wouldn't assume that all capacitors are the same
but overall DSP is more powerful and there will always be Amish type folks who prefer the horse buggy but the rest of the world has already moved on
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Yes and I really need that guided missile system on my way to the shops to buy bread and milk. Have you really explored the limitations of each system... you seem happy to draw a conclusion?
DSP money is money better spent on hearing aids to restore one’s hearing to 20-20KHz +/- .5dB first; only luddites would see otherwise.
well to be perfectly honest passive simply doesn't work for me personally because when i tried SoundEasy or whatever it was 20 years ago i couldn't figure out how to use it and gave up. and even if i got it to work i would still need measurement equipment and i'm too cheap, lazy and stup1d for that as well.
then even after paying for SoundEasy and measurement equipment and getting it all to work i would then have to choose drivers based on their ability to mate with each other which would limit my options forcing me to pay more for less.
instead with DSP i can just buy whatever drivers are on sale, throw them in a box and tune by ear until i'm happy ( even if they don't measure very well at the point of my happiness ). at the end of the day my goal is to be happy myself not to make measurement equipment happy.
finally if we look at a 5-way system ( as an example ) with crossover points at 80 hz, 200 hz, 800 hz and 3 khz ... only the 800 hz and 3 khz can even be realized passively with available size inductors and capacitors ... and if i already have to go with DSP for the 80 hz and 200 hz crossovers i may as well use it for the remaining ones as well ( that way i don't have too learn 2 approaches ) ...
on the other hand if you're dead set on going passive then you will convince yourself that you only need one crossover point at 2 khz ...
automatic transmissions in cars used to have 3 gears, then 4 gears, then 5, 6 and 7 ... when my friend got an Infinity G35 with 7 gears he declared that 7 gears was "too many" ... of course he was convinced of this by "expert" reviewers who at the time were all saying that 7 and 8 gears were too many ... never the less no premium car today has less than that and Ford 10 speed transmission is recognized as excellent.
people just don't think big enough ...
people like to tinker with stuff and make subtle improvements - it has served us well for most of our history when it took hundreds of years for technology to make subtle improvements - but today the "pace of innovation" is simply too fast to think like this ...
of course that's also the difference between a hobby and a commercial enterprise ... companies like JBL cannot afford to use anything but the latest technology while DIYers can use whatever makes them happy even if it means 100 years from now they will still be using Vacuum Tubes ...
why not ? the Amish are happier than most of us.
I agree, when looking at Troels' 3-ways and up, the crossover alone costs more than a pair of appropriate FusionAmps. Yes, he uses expensive parts, but it's not cheap or small to do xo <= 100 Hz. Also how do you do delay passively? Answer: with dsp! 😉
