I have been using a UMIK-1 microphone for a few years but decided I needed to switch to an Audio Interface with an XLR microphone so I can do Semi-dual channel measurements. I bought a Beringer UMC204HD and a Beringer ECM8000 microphone. My problem is the measurement range, if I try to measure at 75db at 1 meter I have to set the level on REW to -36db or the peaks are all flat. I thought the ECM8000 was the problem so I sent it back an got a SonarWorks SoundID Reference Measurement Microphone. It is slightly better but it still doesn't have the range of the UMIK-1. Is it just me or are these microphones the problem. Attached shows my problem, green is -30dB, red is -27dB and purple is -24dB. The problem is easy to spot, 95.5bB maximum around 10khz.
Attachments
Yes, I calibrated the soundcard, set the level correctly in the SPL applet and applied the manufactures calibration file to the Microphone. It just seems that the microphone itself runs out at 95dB. Here are the specifications from the manufacture, looks like it can do better, it must be something I'm doing.
Microphone specification
- Houses pre-polarized electret-condenser capsule
- Frequency response: 20 Hz - 20kHz with supplied calibration profile
- Omnidirectional polar pattern
- Sensitivity is rated at -37dB/Pa (14 mV)
- Self noise: 24 dB
- S/N ratio: 70 dB
- Dynamic range: 106dB
- Maximum SPL: 132 dB SPL
Last edited:
I think your input sensitivity (gain) on the UMC204HD needs to be turned down.
I just calibrated an ECM8000 on an UMC404, and with Input gain at minimum, set calibration at 94dB using a calibrator.
REW gave Max SPL capability at 125dB. I switched calibrator output to 114dB, and SPL meter raised to 114.
So you should be ok with a little sound card adjustment, me thinks. Good luck.
I just calibrated an ECM8000 on an UMC404, and with Input gain at minimum, set calibration at 94dB using a calibrator.
REW gave Max SPL capability at 125dB. I switched calibrator output to 114dB, and SPL meter raised to 114.
So you should be ok with a little sound card adjustment, me thinks. Good luck.
Tending to agree with Mark100 here. When things are turned up too far they top out. Never mind today what the actual level is. Sometimes it helps to double check where you're at by taking another measurement of the same thing at -10dB and overlaying the two.
Have you checked distortion numbers? It may show a level problem quickly if the numbers are high.
Do you set the gain on the knob or with the ASIO UMC control panel? I just did these sweeps with UMIK-1 and the highest two pushed it into clipping but it still more consistent.
Attachments
Either works. I like to turn gain knob all the way down, and leave control panel gain full .
Being able to simply turn gain knob to minimum lets SPL measurement stay repeatable, easily.
Being able to simply turn gain knob to minimum lets SPL measurement stay repeatable, easily.
It's clear you can identify the issue then. You will need to identify the gain structure yourself. For example, say the speaker is reproducing the test signal too loud and the microphone capsule is being pushed too far. There's no setting you can change to bring it back.. so you need to understand what is happening and where.
All set, I followed Mark100's advice and turned the gain know all the way and I can can measure at higher levels. Here are the results on top of the UMIK-1 results. Too bad I sent back the ECM8000 that I got for $29.00
Attachments
Thank you to all that helped me solve this simple problem and thank you to the whole community for the wealth of information you all share for free.
You bet, mtidge, glad to have been part of the help.......lord knows, i've sure got plenty of help here too
Hi Mark,
I have the same UMC204HD and a Dayton EMM-6 mic. Setting input gain for the mic with the knob turned down to minimum, I get this message after running a sweep in REW;
I used the exact same setup and output level for the Umik measurement and got no warning message like the one above.
Volume in windows sound settings and UMC control panel software is at 100% for both input and output.
MIX and GAIN OUT knobs on UMC front panel set to maximum.
I also get higher distortion from the Dayton (Green) vs UMIK (Red);
I calibrated the Dayton using a sound level meter, so the Dayton and Umik showed very similar SPL for the measurement.
Any ideas about what I'm doing wrong?
It is just a warning, you can ignore it if you are using the minimum input gain because you need to measure very, very high levels. Otherwise turn the input gain up a bit.
Hi Lament, i can't help with UMIK comparisons, as i quit working with that mic long ago.
I did quickly pull it out to see if i could make quick sense of the comparison, but found/remembered that i had changed the UMIKs internal sensitivity dip switches. (And have no clue where they are set and no interest in figuring it out.)
When you put your calibrator (what kind are you using) on the mics, do you get the same SPL meter reading?
Sounds like you aren't ????
All you settings look right i think.
Anyway, i may have given marginal advice saying to turn the UMC input channel gain to minimum. It works, but your need to test speaker output at higher SPL levels (like 94dB or higher @ 1m). I mainly test outdoors, hence the marginal advice.
You probably want to raise the UMC input channel gain some. A good way to do it where you know what's going on, is to first set calibration for 94dB with the UMC gain at minimum. Then, with the calibrator still running, turn the UMC gain up to where the SPL meter reads 110-115dB. This will probably have the gain knob approaching 1/2 way or a bit less.
Then recalibrate to 94dB at that gain knob setting. REW will probably report a Max SPL capability in the 110-115 dB zone.
(Eyeball where the gain knob white line points to on the UMC.....something you can remember, because your SPL will need a recal to any other gain knob setting.)
That should solve the Level Low issue....good luck.!
Oh, btw if you ever go for another sound card / mic interface, look for one with recallable mic preamp settings. This solves the "where was the damn gain knob pointing to keep calibration correct issue". And a soundcard with that capacity will no doubt have proaudio output levels which is also a nice step up ime.
edit: Aah, i see the man himself posted the answer while i was replying !
I did quickly pull it out to see if i could make quick sense of the comparison, but found/remembered that i had changed the UMIKs internal sensitivity dip switches. (And have no clue where they are set and no interest in figuring it out.)
When you put your calibrator (what kind are you using) on the mics, do you get the same SPL meter reading?
Sounds like you aren't ????
All you settings look right i think.
Anyway, i may have given marginal advice saying to turn the UMC input channel gain to minimum. It works, but your need to test speaker output at higher SPL levels (like 94dB or higher @ 1m). I mainly test outdoors, hence the marginal advice.
You probably want to raise the UMC input channel gain some. A good way to do it where you know what's going on, is to first set calibration for 94dB with the UMC gain at minimum. Then, with the calibrator still running, turn the UMC gain up to where the SPL meter reads 110-115dB. This will probably have the gain knob approaching 1/2 way or a bit less.
Then recalibrate to 94dB at that gain knob setting. REW will probably report a Max SPL capability in the 110-115 dB zone.
(Eyeball where the gain knob white line points to on the UMC.....something you can remember, because your SPL will need a recal to any other gain knob setting.)
That should solve the Level Low issue....good luck.!
Oh, btw if you ever go for another sound card / mic interface, look for one with recallable mic preamp settings. This solves the "where was the damn gain knob pointing to keep calibration correct issue". And a soundcard with that capacity will no doubt have proaudio output levels which is also a nice step up ime.
edit: Aah, i see the man himself posted the answer while i was replying !
Mark, thanks for taking the time to write a very comprehensive answer, I appreciate it.
Regarding the calibrator, it's just a very simple Radio Shack sound level meter, probably not super accurate. But maybe good enough.
I will play around with the settings and make some new calibrations at higher input sensitivities.
I agree there should be recallable mic preamp settings, or at least a stepped gain knob that wouldn't move easily.
Do you have a recommendation for a relatively reasonable external soundcard with such options? Higher output levels like you mention, would also be welcomed.
Regarding the calibrator, it's just a very simple Radio Shack sound level meter, probably not super accurate. But maybe good enough.
I will play around with the settings and make some new calibrations at higher input sensitivities.
I agree there should be recallable mic preamp settings, or at least a stepped gain knob that wouldn't move easily.
Do you have a recommendation for a relatively reasonable external soundcard with such options? Higher output levels like you mention, would also be welcomed.
I've done many 100s of measurements with the Dayton mic and the Behringer mic using the UM404 and three different M-Audio cards. Normally I have the mic gain knob on the USB interface at about 12:00 to 1:00. REW is usually very good about telling you if you are clippingor if the signal is too low. Are you not seeing wither one of those? I don't not use SPL calibration, as it doesn't matter for my sweeps.
REW also has the "Check Levels" dialog. Have you used that? I do not change any levels in the ASIO driver, I think thay are all at maximum, if they are even available. In ASIO there should not be a mic boost, but Windows does have it.
REW also has the "Check Levels" dialog. Have you used that? I do not change any levels in the ASIO driver, I think thay are all at maximum, if they are even available. In ASIO there should not be a mic boost, but Windows does have it.
Hi Pano,
I have only been using UMIK-1 with REW up until now. Everything is very integrated and intuitive with this combo, so I haven't had to deal with input sensitivity and such. Wanted to try the semi dual channel approach to be able to work out driver delay settings, thus bought the UMC204HD and Dayton EMM-6 microphone.
Yes I got the too low signal warning initially. I only used the SPL calibration to be able to compare the UMIK-1 and Dayton frequency response and distortion.
Other than that I probably won't use SPL calibration.
I always check levels before measuring. I was initially just a bit confused that Mark was able to dial the input gain knob all the way down and still get enough level. It seemed very practical for consistency between measurements. I will try to set the dial to max position and press the PAD button, this will probably be close to 2:00 position.
I have only been using UMIK-1 with REW up until now. Everything is very integrated and intuitive with this combo, so I haven't had to deal with input sensitivity and such. Wanted to try the semi dual channel approach to be able to work out driver delay settings, thus bought the UMC204HD and Dayton EMM-6 microphone.
Yes I got the too low signal warning initially. I only used the SPL calibration to be able to compare the UMIK-1 and Dayton frequency response and distortion.
Other than that I probably won't use SPL calibration.
I always check levels before measuring. I was initially just a bit confused that Mark was able to dial the input gain knob all the way down and still get enough level. It seemed very practical for consistency between measurements. I will try to set the dial to max position and press the PAD button, this will probably be close to 2:00 position.