I regularly look at TG's page and came across a new build. Something caught my eye: Those speakers have awful surrounds! 😳 And I thought if they look awful to me, what about the WAF?
We read Purifi's description:
• Low Surround Radiation Distortion
o The surround contributes to sound output. Conventional surrounds produce distortion as they
deform. PURIFI’s Neutral Surround geometry avoids this mechanism without constraining motion.
This reduces harmonic distortion as well as intermodulation distortion.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Purifi-6661.htmhttp://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Purifi-6661/PTT6.5W08-01A.pdf
I suppose a grate with a nice fabric could convince a wife, although in my case I have not yet built the ones I owe her for my DTQWTII ... 😉
We read Purifi's description:
• Low Surround Radiation Distortion
o The surround contributes to sound output. Conventional surrounds produce distortion as they
deform. PURIFI’s Neutral Surround geometry avoids this mechanism without constraining motion.
This reduces harmonic distortion as well as intermodulation distortion.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Purifi-6661.htmhttp://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Purifi-6661/PTT6.5W08-01A.pdf
I suppose a grate with a nice fabric could convince a wife, although in my case I have not yet built the ones I owe her for my DTQWTII ... 😉
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You only build speakers for the eye candy impress your friends and don't care what they sound like? As I understand, these sound very nice even if ASR measurements were not stellar. I have not really looked at how Amirm measured speakers. I am thinking about them actually. TG usually has pretty good advice.
FWIW, this is not the first driver to use some sort of diffraction spreading in the surround. The issue has been around since the 50's if you go back in the AES papers. Linearity of the suspension is a constant battle. One can make longer motors, but the suspension always is the limit.
It is difficult for me to understand that this design can be more linear than a conventional surround ..... and the appearance is for me a no no no!👎
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Has ASR measured Troels speakers? I would like to see a link, perhaps they have measured my DTQWTII, although we already know that the measurements of the speakers do not say everything .....
I'll take a look, if you find any, please put the link.
No doubt they can be made to sound great, but I totally agree with academia50 regarding the looks. They remind me of Halloween scar tissue makeup.
Indeed they look ugly, and besides, I see nothing wrong with conventional design speaker surrounds.
You have to look at current marketing trends and wonder of the validity of some products, as well as their real benefits.
Personally, I like my living room to look like a living room, without eyes being distracted and focused on visible/bare drivers.
It's a living room, traditionally furnished, some modern pieces, not some tacky stereo store with grille-less speaker systems all over the place and open shelves of components.
I don't have the need to "impress" anyone with equipment, they are impressed with the sonics.
Dark smoked-glass door only open for display
You have to look at current marketing trends and wonder of the validity of some products, as well as their real benefits.
Personally, I like my living room to look like a living room, without eyes being distracted and focused on visible/bare drivers.
It's a living room, traditionally furnished, some modern pieces, not some tacky stereo store with grille-less speaker systems all over the place and open shelves of components.
I don't have the need to "impress" anyone with equipment, they are impressed with the sonics.
Dark smoked-glass door only open for display
Love the irony in your last sentence wiseoldtech 🙂
https://purifi-audio.com/2021/10/14/some-speaker-problems-that-needed-solving/Purifi gives their reasoning for this design in the Sd section of that paper.
https://purifi-audio.com/2021/10/14/some-speaker-problems-that-needed-solving/Purifi gives their reasoning for this design in the Sd section of that paper.
They haven't measured Torels speaker, but they have measured at least 2 different speakers using the same Purifi driver. All of the various sites (hificompass, Erin, ASR, probably more) agree that it measures incredibly well. You may not like it and may not understand it, but it can reasonably lay claim to being the best-measuring 6.5" driver out there. Put a grille on if you think they're ugly, or choose another driver based on aesthetics - there certainly are some good-measuring drivers from SB or Scan-Speak that are more attractive, they just don't measure as well as the Purifi.
I also do agree that Purify drivers are not the best-looking drivers out there. Their surrounds reminisce artificial teeth! But I don't care, as long as they are the best performers for the money.
engineers always working for their pocket .... not yours!
biz sets the rules ... let the customer bleed AMAPossible
if you use two woofers but one inverted mounted with magnet to the outside
guess what will happen distortion-wise?
anyone dare to measure it?
MUSIC brings TONS of distortion to please you! (a sine wave is a bloody lifeless bitch)
why want to avoid it if not of a resonant character?
biz sets the rules ... let the customer bleed AMAPossible
if you use two woofers but one inverted mounted with magnet to the outside
guess what will happen distortion-wise?
anyone dare to measure it?
MUSIC brings TONS of distortion to please you! (a sine wave is a bloody lifeless bitch)
why want to avoid it if not of a resonant character?
1. These speakers are ugly, they can’t even live in my garage much less my living room. If this design had twice the performance AND longevity of a normal surround I might have to get used to it because everyone’s surrounds would be fugly in 9 months. I haven’t heard them (and apparently neither have reviewers in a finished design) they could be ugly magic.
2. IMO measurements are less revealing and take on different meaning as you go down the audio chain, by the time you get to a raw speaker at the very end of the chain without a cabinet design? At that point measurements are at the most suggestive (and at the worst misleading) of what you might be able to accomplish with the driver. This is completely missed or denied by the ASR cult
3. Are performance and measurement the same? Hardly, from a measurement point of view my powered studio monitors are my best speakers, from a musical performance prospective to MY ears they are 3-4th on the list.
so could they sound good enough to overcome their aesthetic? Yep, but can measurements shown us that is the case? Nope the interpretation, scope (of the measurements) and musical conveyance are still subjective
2. IMO measurements are less revealing and take on different meaning as you go down the audio chain, by the time you get to a raw speaker at the very end of the chain without a cabinet design? At that point measurements are at the most suggestive (and at the worst misleading) of what you might be able to accomplish with the driver. This is completely missed or denied by the ASR cult
3. Are performance and measurement the same? Hardly, from a measurement point of view my powered studio monitors are my best speakers, from a musical performance prospective to MY ears they are 3-4th on the list.
so could they sound good enough to overcome their aesthetic? Yep, but can measurements shown us that is the case? Nope the interpretation, scope (of the measurements) and musical conveyance are still subjective
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Well, I only opened the glass door in order to photograph the components, otherwise it stays closed, only the glow of the displays shows through.
Even order distortion products (mainly H2 and H4) will be reduced. These even order products are more benign than odd order distortion products. Many people deliberately add H2 and H4 in their audio systems to "improve" the sound.
My experience doing this with high quality drivers suggests it is of little to no benefit. Often motor noise becomes objectionable too.
Good for that, the best in its size. But I prefer mine, lower Xmax and higher SD, 8 inches, it is not to brag but not to despise.... 😱
You look very good despite the passing of the years ! 👍
I think they're much more visually interesting the the conventional same old same old drivers, although I accept that most are resistant to change
