I love this kind of build...
Very nice Phase! Sometimes you have just gotta try things...
at times things that are a stretch "in comfort zones"
*for me building stereo amps (prefer mono)
always working tight spaces.
I like the front end interface you implemented... KUDOS!
Very nice Phase! Sometimes you have just gotta try things...
at times things that are a stretch "in comfort zones"
*for me building stereo amps (prefer mono)
always working tight spaces.
I like the front end interface you implemented... KUDOS!
If I could get ahold of an HCA2200 I’d do it too.
Wasn’t anything special about the PL200. No red-eye meters, nothing. Nice chassis for building an amp into.
Wasn’t anything special about the PL200. No red-eye meters, nothing. Nice chassis for building an amp into.
floors clogged with chassis / builds.
I am busy currently ACTIVELY modeling the ideas and the very topic at hand here.
The basis *were* Hafler based amps, available / affordable scale of economy to have multiple.
Built half with Exicons. All scaled with BEEFY 63 - 82 - 90 volt power supplies,
different brands of caps [which *some* would argue all sound the same]
it would be impossible to detail my very linear pathways evaluating the
hierarchy of these premium grade parts. These images tell a very limited story,
which supports, the actual building the best damned power supplies (we?) I can.
The CLC frame amps (image 2), are result of significant frustration of being trapped,
virtually confined to a box... I began thinking / building outside of the box.
Things ARE much better... I had to build from scratch to get
what I wanted and needed, I could not "buy it".
Build "better" power suppl(ies) to
test "better audio circuit(s) to
test better power supplies to
test a better...
The power supply is too often neglected,
is likely misunderstood? is too expensive
...for most. I .always. start there...
If I did not already' own, have built, am building
all these amps, I would be buying a freaking 2200II
I will admit to a little obsession with the topic,
I am wading knee deep in chassis's currently,
thinking a lot about this.
*I already typed this, am struggling posting it.
Sorry not to thread jack, it supports my
expressions here, for those unfamiliar
with my posts and build efforts.
I am busy currently ACTIVELY modeling the ideas and the very topic at hand here.
The basis *were* Hafler based amps, available / affordable scale of economy to have multiple.
Built half with Exicons. All scaled with BEEFY 63 - 82 - 90 volt power supplies,
different brands of caps [which *some* would argue all sound the same]
it would be impossible to detail my very linear pathways evaluating the
hierarchy of these premium grade parts. These images tell a very limited story,
which supports, the actual building the best damned power supplies (we?) I can.
The CLC frame amps (image 2), are result of significant frustration of being trapped,
virtually confined to a box... I began thinking / building outside of the box.
Things ARE much better... I had to build from scratch to get
what I wanted and needed, I could not "buy it".
Build "better" power suppl(ies) to
test "better audio circuit(s) to
test better power supplies to
test a better...
The power supply is too often neglected,
is likely misunderstood? is too expensive
...for most. I .always. start there...
If I did not already' own, have built, am building
all these amps, I would be buying a freaking 2200II
I will admit to a little obsession with the topic,
I am wading knee deep in chassis's currently,
thinking a lot about this.
*I already typed this, am struggling posting it.
Sorry not to thread jack, it supports my
expressions here, for those unfamiliar
with my posts and build efforts.
Attachments
Could you use MJ21193 / MJ21194 in a PL700? They've got impressive SOA.
The PLs did have one thing going for them - they looked fantastic.
As for the recap, not surprising. They're older than dirt, and a lot of them have been worked really hard.
I consider a 21194 an upgraded version of the 15024 not something entirely different. They never got around to making any version of it with the new ones. The 024 was the last one ever used.
If you have one that *is* true complementary, either original or modded, there are things you can do to really clean it up that you *can’t* on an older one.
Carver also had a nasty habit of designing in the tallest skinniest computer grades in that he could find - making an exact replacement almost impossible. Usually you have to resort to using multiple snap-in types and finding a way to mount them.
If you have one that *is* true complementary, either original or modded, there are things you can do to really clean it up that you *can’t* on an older one.
Carver also had a nasty habit of designing in the tallest skinniest computer grades in that he could find - making an exact replacement almost impossible. Usually you have to resort to using multiple snap-in types and finding a way to mount them.
I'm going Saturday to check out the 2200ii but based on situation it will be impossible to hook it up and listen to it. I can plug it in to power but that's all. The owner says it turns on, clicks, and light turns green and he 'swears' they worked perfect when they were in a system. Is there any way to check its health using something like a volt meter? If so, I know zero about that...could someone tell me how I'd go about doing that? Also, is there any potential risk to the amp associated with doing that (say if I had the meter on the wrong setting or something)?
I know measuring may not tell me it's going to sound perfect, but cant it tell me if there is a major issue like a dead channel or something?
I know measuring may not tell me it's going to sound perfect, but cant it tell me if there is a major issue like a dead channel or something?
Last edited:
If it puts out zero volts DC with no signal, and can be made to put out an AC voltage if you ‘thumb’ the end of the input cable, then there probably isn’t anything grossly wrong with it.
Can you explain "thumb the end of the input cable?
Do you mean plug in a rca cable to the input and tap on them while measuring the AC voltage at speaker outputs?
To put this in perspective...I've never used a meter on electronics like a amp....so I'm pretty much clueless....but do enjoy learning new things and tinkering with stuff.
Last edited:
“Thumb on the end of the input cable” is a cheap and dirty way of injecting a 60 Hz test tone without any equipment. Your body will work as an antenna.
with forethought, fairly easy to test.
Check DC offset with multi-meter, .a foremost concern / indicator. of health.
*If the relay engages... a nemesis to many "older amps"
if it is OK, then proceed.
I would take a cell-phone, mini TRS to dual RCA plug.
A cell phone or PDA? as possible source, play .something.
see if passes a signal. For a field test...
I have some old full range 4" or any old car stereo speakers
to hook up to the amp, not so much to audition, but simply
see if it passes an undistorted signal, both channels driven.
Go to the thrift store, pick up (any old cheap) speaker to test with,
if you do not have one, even a speaker cone out of an old
radio or TV, a functioning one...
I gut flat screen TVs for parts, I digress...
and have "sacrificial" drivers/parts.
Check DC offset with multi-meter, .a foremost concern / indicator. of health.
*If the relay engages... a nemesis to many "older amps"
if it is OK, then proceed.
I would take a cell-phone, mini TRS to dual RCA plug.
A cell phone or PDA? as possible source, play .something.
see if passes a signal. For a field test...
I have some old full range 4" or any old car stereo speakers
to hook up to the amp, not so much to audition, but simply
see if it passes an undistorted signal, both channels driven.
Go to the thrift store, pick up (any old cheap) speaker to test with,
if you do not have one, even a speaker cone out of an old
radio or TV, a functioning one...
I gut flat screen TVs for parts, I digress...
and have "sacrificial" drivers/parts.
Last edited:
The key thing is that it powers up and comes out of protect. As long as it powers up, comes out of protect, doesn't have a bunch of DC on the output and passes SOME signal, you can be pretty confident that it's not completely screwed up.
Agreed, if it comes out of protect, it can't have too much wrong. Even if you have to spend some
money on a tech to fix any problems that eventually show up. Most older used equipment
is not in "perfect" condition. What is the price?
money on a tech to fix any problems that eventually show up. Most older used equipment
is not in "perfect" condition. What is the price?
$500 he says they come out of protect. Hopefully they will be fine, I think I'll take a volt meter to test these things out though. I'm not sure what settings to use on the meter but maybe YouTube can help with that.
Just set the meter to DC volts, on the 1V range if it is not autoranging.
Polarity does not matter, since you are looking for near zero,
but up to around 100mV DC output after a couple of minutes being on would be ok.
Don't short the outputs with the probes though, that would be bad.
Polarity does not matter, since you are looking for near zero,
but up to around 100mV DC output after a couple of minutes being on would be ok.
Don't short the outputs with the probes though, that would be bad.
Last edited:
For the AC test, can you give me a general idea what to set the meter too when I test the AC voltage and what I'll be looking for on the voltmeter.
Inexpensive DVM produce random numbers on music. Not worth checking the speaker output with $30 DVM on AC. For AC test, put a cheap speaker on it, put a source like a portable radio or CD player with a earphone jack. 1/8" stereo phone plug to dual RCA plug adapter. Sound okay, you're good.
You want to test full power out, you need 8 or 4 ohm resistors rated watts more than the amp is rated at. You need alligator clip leads if binder posts or 1/4" phone plug if that is the only output. You need an analog VOM with 20, 50 or 100 vac scale, $14. Or an oscilloscope $60 + two 10X probes $40 each. Or a $170 RMS DVM, which is accurate 60-7 khz but misses any oscillation above that frequency. Turn up volume until sounds stupid (clipping). Back off a little & measure AC voltage out on both channels. P=(V^2)/Z where Z is resistor impedance. Usually dried up rail caps limit power on old amps, but other electrolytic coupling caps can also lead to limited power. Put rail caps in Allen S100 amp that was putting out 2 watts. That brought it to 25 W. All new e-caps took it to 100 W.
You want to test full power out, you need 8 or 4 ohm resistors rated watts more than the amp is rated at. You need alligator clip leads if binder posts or 1/4" phone plug if that is the only output. You need an analog VOM with 20, 50 or 100 vac scale, $14. Or an oscilloscope $60 + two 10X probes $40 each. Or a $170 RMS DVM, which is accurate 60-7 khz but misses any oscillation above that frequency. Turn up volume until sounds stupid (clipping). Back off a little & measure AC voltage out on both channels. P=(V^2)/Z where Z is resistor impedance. Usually dried up rail caps limit power on old amps, but other electrolytic coupling caps can also lead to limited power. Put rail caps in Allen S100 amp that was putting out 2 watts. That brought it to 25 W. All new e-caps took it to 100 W.
Last edited:
Of course the proper way to test it is to have a whole suite of test equipment. Which may not be available. With no scope, no signal source and no speaker, just a multimeter, your options are limited. But not impossible to test basic functionality. You *should* have a speaker - because if you can bring a meter certainly you can scare up a POS sacrificial speaker out of an old radio or TV. And a resistor to drop the level down to something the speaker can take. Especially if you have no source to hook up to it - and have to resort to the thumb test to make signal. Even with no speaker you would be able to measure AC voltage coming out of the thing. The level wouldn’t be well controlled and could very well go to full power.
