When I was young, a very long time ago, I owned a pair of Tannoy 12" Golds. I made a moderately large cabinet based on the info in a long list book (before T&S). Thinking bigger was better, I sold those and bought the 15" Golds, building cabinets based on the same theory. The 15" couldn't match the 12" for sound.
Interestingly, when I had the 12" Tannoys I roomed with two guys in a large house. The one friend had a pair of A7s, with the large Altec horns in seperate cabinets on top of the main cabinets. We had both pair of speakers hooked up to a Sony integrated amp. Typically, when listening the A7s ruled until it was something with lower bass content, and then the Tannoys took over.
Wish I'd kept the 12" Golds .... it's probably why I have a fondness for coaxials.
Decidedly not...they are much better in that aspect.
I have only hooked up my ACA monoblocks to test the speakers and get a sense of what they are like.
They image very nicely. Instruments are placed and defined well in good recordings. Poorly produced recordings sound as one would expect...poor.
I just have them plopped on some PVC pipes I had cut for rear chambers on my horns to bring them up to a more correct listening height. They are too far into the room as I just pushed my baffleless speaker experiment back against the wall behind them.
They seem very neutral in regards to overall tone...which is what I would expect from a studio monitor...and actually hoped for.
I don’t know if the bottom end will hold up, especially with these little amps, on large scale recordings that reach deeper and require impact.
I think these will require bi-amping with something that has a little more power.
Tannoy recommends higher power amps even though their literature states 98dB sensitivity.
I think their minimum amp recommended for a small studio was 50 watts.
I am interested in trying a variety of amps with them to see if differences are more obvious.
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Why does the the 1K4 dip matter? The horn can cross lower than that, particularly at home (not concert) SPL.
The driver is discussed hrer:
P-Audio SN15-500CX - Speakerplans.com Forums
"The horn does affect the sound, but we managed to balance the EQ without significant difficulty. Took us about an hour playing around with a measurement mics and crossover settings. We did the testing bi-amped, and the final solution we transferred to a passive crossver."
It seems like anyone with a mic and a DSP could replicate this.
That said:
"The off axis response isnt great, and there is beaming from the HF horn (this is probably the biggest problem with this driver), but when used as a monitor wedge this didnt present us with a significant problem. If you have a singer who wants to move around a lot though, it would be problematic."
...this beaming is probably what would make it unsuitable for how I listen, in my living room.
In my experience, with big boxes, power is seldom a consideration - you are usually excursion limited, not power limited. I used a 20 watt amp to drive 15" coaxials.
Also, my approach would be to highpass the coaxial, and use additional woofers.
That would let you pick the coaxial without needing to worry about how low it can go, or how much power it can handle.
e.g.
If everything else is equal, a 6" coaxial crossed at 200z will play about 15dB louder than an equivalent 12" coaxial run full range (down to 40Hz).
Piston Excursion calculator
...so if the 6" had the dispersion I wanted, or came with a nicer HF horn, or had some other good quality that a larger driver lacked, I'd get the 6".
High-passing the coaxial (and using additional LF drivers) has the extra benefit of letting you position the coaxials for the best coverage, and position the LF driver(s) for the best LF support / smoothness. Much better than having to pick one spot that compromises this.
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You're welcome!
Not familiar with BB6Pro other than some folks have reported some accuracy issues.
Normally, what it's referring to is its end correction [K] with a flanged end [baffle mounted]/'free' inside = 0.732, the default for all programs AFAIK: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/att...-dayton-port-length-effective-port-length-jpg
Quite correctly! Bad enough the drivers are rising on axis, but Tractrix further confines it, so once you can no longer see the full throat, you're way too far off axis and why pure WGs are much better if you can angle the horns to get a wide enough 'sweet' spot.
Not yet. But in the meantime I've got myself some nice new measuring microphone.
So going by the linked graphics the pictogram in the BB6P is wrong, right? Since it shows the length as measured from one end of the vent to the other. While in reality the length is supposed to be only to the middle section of the flare, right?
Attachments
Also I've been further sketching the cabinet itself and I think I'll do it more 3D. The top and bottom translam panels will be machined with a concave. So there will be no two parallel surfaces inside and outside the cabinet.
Also I've pressure tested a few birch plywood scrap pieces (first I've applied some nice transparent epoxy coating and clear coated them) and they hold vacuum. Sure I have no idea if this approach will work on a full sized cabinet but every bit counts, right? With this tweak only the outer speaker seal and the speaker baffle itself can leak air.
Also I've pressure tested a few birch plywood scrap pieces (first I've applied some nice transparent epoxy coating and clear coated them) and they hold vacuum. Sure I have no idea if this approach will work on a full sized cabinet but every bit counts, right? With this tweak only the outer speaker seal and the speaker baffle itself can leak air.
Yes Tannoy DC drivers is that got me into coaxials as well. I first heard the D700 in the 90s and also the Little Red at some point both really gave a big sound that Ive been searching for since. The smaller Tannoys didn't give the same but Ive been happy with both more recent Revolution DC6TSE and older Saturn S8LCR (8" bookshelf). In fact the S8 driver is what has been used in many of the 90s and 00s nearfield monitors as well, I think its a great driver but its a little soft/warm compared to PA coax drivers which I'm currently exploring. Ive stopped looking for second hand, hope to find a more recent PA that really gives it all. I guess I must go up in price to BMS, Beyma, B&C, Faital or similar but wont give up on lower priced Eminence and Celestion just yet. Im still learning crossovers and cabinet finishes so these cheaper drivers are good for exercise and experience I guess.
I’ve browsed TLHP, they have great prices and lots in stock. I found the FTX1225 with a big discount if buying two but once I added shipping+tax+toll to outside EU the price ended up the same as local supply. And the reviews of that shop is a little mixed? Anyway I’m waiting for some COVID restrictions to loosen up so I can buy wood first and get back to the workshop firstly. Lots of plans but lockdown makes it all very difficult. I will probably get the celestions in any case when it’s back in stock locally.
Good link, I have previously used that online calculator for calculations of my subwoofer, (sealed), attention with these observations:
" This calculator is only valid for sealed box or infinite baffle alignments."
" Vented alignments will typically have double the driver's Xmax values at F3, this shows the efficiency inherent in the vented alignment "
These days I have had an idea related to this controversy.
My vintage JBL coaxial (rare bird) were out of use lately. (It was the rear speakers on my 5.1 HT system, but something exploded inside the Optoma projector, and the lamp went out, I won't be able to watch any more movies on the 100-inch screen for a time )
So I decided to go back to listening to them exclusively with music and to compare them again with my DTQWT II, but this time with different and fixed settings for each pair of cabinets. (Before I used the same system and only compared by alternating the speakers)
System A
JBL LE14C / 80 liters BR (Diy)
NAD 3020 20 Watts Rms / 8 Ohms channel (SS)
Cd player Technics SLPG300
System B
DTQWTII Troels Gravesen (Diy)
Prima Luna Dialogue Two 21 Watts Rms / 8 Ohms (tubes, switched to triode mode)
Oppo Sonic (Wi Fi, Streaming)
Obviously the same sound sources (singers, orchestras)
All the cabinets were located in the same room, and in similar positions to have a minimum influence of it.
Results to my ears, somewhat archaic but highly trained in music.
There are noticeable differences in the realism of the instruments and the voices (timbre, colorations, you can imagine in favor of which one ...) but to my surprise the behavior in the low zone (compensated with a little reinforcement of the bass control in the NAD, the PL does not have tone adjustments) of the JBL was very good! The responses on the high end were also very warm and friendly at the JBL! (LE20 cone tweeter, a bit disqualified by Troels in measurements, however, I didn't find it bad at all) although it can't compete against the cloth dome Audax TW034- and WG
in naturalness.
I corroborate what has been said here about the dispersion of the coaxial and its behavior if we move too far away from the axis. But since I was located in the acoustic center of the famous triangle (with enough tolerance to the sides) and having raised the cabinets to have the tweter at the height of my ears, the A system performed very well, and it brought back fond memories of when I used that setup for many years.
And I also remembered how great (more naturalness and more far-field audibility) the sound became with the B system when I first coupled them to the Prima Luna tube amp! (I remember a comment - was it GM? - of the benefits of combining Alnico magnet and tubes, superior to ceramics and modern Neodymium)
So let me repeat: All acoustic cabinets have their sound signature, no two are alike, but there are discussions that become sterile when comparing pears with apples, as in this case ...( My comparison ! )
Simply, the ear gets used to a certain good sound, many technical details are insignificant, but if we manage to forget them in our listening, we scare them from our minds, pleasure is assured.
Well, if you endured this digression, I thank you for reading and any comments are welcome.
PS: Writing a lot and fast is one of the benefits of having learned typing at a very young age, (although I have an extra delay because my English is very bad, as some know and I must use the GT) but "not everything is pink" Do not believe, there are thorns too, and I tell you that I have been in bed for several days recovering from my chronic lumbar ailment, this time I made up my mind and will go to the operating room (I already have several for other ailments , luckily nothing serious) once again, when lessen the pandemic here and have the second dose of Astrazeneca applied, which is long delayed by some restrictions from a world power, sadly)
My regards to all.
Don't let the tree prevent you from seeing the forest.
(Anonymous)
My vintage JBL coaxial (rare bird) were out of use lately. (It was the rear speakers on my 5.1 HT system, but something exploded inside the Optoma projector, and the lamp went out, I won't be able to watch any more movies on the 100-inch screen for a time )
So I decided to go back to listening to them exclusively with music and to compare them again with my DTQWT II, but this time with different and fixed settings for each pair of cabinets. (Before I used the same system and only compared by alternating the speakers)
System A
JBL LE14C / 80 liters BR (Diy)
NAD 3020 20 Watts Rms / 8 Ohms channel (SS)
Cd player Technics SLPG300
System B
DTQWTII Troels Gravesen (Diy)
Prima Luna Dialogue Two 21 Watts Rms / 8 Ohms (tubes, switched to triode mode)
Oppo Sonic (Wi Fi, Streaming)
Obviously the same sound sources (singers, orchestras)
All the cabinets were located in the same room, and in similar positions to have a minimum influence of it.
Results to my ears, somewhat archaic but highly trained in music.
There are noticeable differences in the realism of the instruments and the voices (timbre, colorations, you can imagine in favor of which one ...) but to my surprise the behavior in the low zone (compensated with a little reinforcement of the bass control in the NAD, the PL does not have tone adjustments) of the JBL was very good! The responses on the high end were also very warm and friendly at the JBL! (LE20 cone tweeter, a bit disqualified by Troels in measurements, however, I didn't find it bad at all) although it can't compete against the cloth dome Audax TW034- and WG
in naturalness.
I corroborate what has been said here about the dispersion of the coaxial and its behavior if we move too far away from the axis. But since I was located in the acoustic center of the famous triangle (with enough tolerance to the sides) and having raised the cabinets to have the tweter at the height of my ears, the A system performed very well, and it brought back fond memories of when I used that setup for many years.
And I also remembered how great (more naturalness and more far-field audibility) the sound became with the B system when I first coupled them to the Prima Luna tube amp! (I remember a comment - was it GM? - of the benefits of combining Alnico magnet and tubes, superior to ceramics and modern Neodymium)
So let me repeat: All acoustic cabinets have their sound signature, no two are alike, but there are discussions that become sterile when comparing pears with apples, as in this case ...( My comparison ! )
Simply, the ear gets used to a certain good sound, many technical details are insignificant, but if we manage to forget them in our listening, we scare them from our minds, pleasure is assured.
Well, if you endured this digression, I thank you for reading and any comments are welcome.
PS: Writing a lot and fast is one of the benefits of having learned typing at a very young age, (although I have an extra delay because my English is very bad, as some know and I must use the GT) but "not everything is pink" Do not believe, there are thorns too, and I tell you that I have been in bed for several days recovering from my chronic lumbar ailment, this time I made up my mind and will go to the operating room (I already have several for other ailments , luckily nothing serious) once again, when lessen the pandemic here and have the second dose of Astrazeneca applied, which is long delayed by some restrictions from a world power, sadly)
My regards to all.
Don't let the tree prevent you from seeing the forest.
(Anonymous)
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The new FaitalPRO 12HX500 is now available at TLHP
Coaxial speaker FaitalPRO 12HX500, 8+8 ohm, 12 inch
Has anyone tried it?
Coaxial speaker FaitalPRO 12HX500, 8+8 ohm, 12 inch
Has anyone tried it?
I have always had an itch to see what can be done with a 10” Tannoy and designed a few miniOnkens for some. To get bass i think one needs to add a woofer, the colouration needs working on and i am sure bi-amping wouldn’t hurt.
I have heard 12s and 15s (in the BIG, BIG boxes), and owned an 8” (i didn’t like the plastic cone).
dave
I have heard 12s and 15s (in the BIG, BIG boxes), and owned an 8” (i didn’t like the plastic cone).
dave
Yeah, been 'beating that drum' since the first time I auditioned a SS amp driven SET tube era speaker, though autoformer coupled low output impedance SS amps can sound quite good, similar to a higher output impedance PP tube amp.
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